Episode 26 - Tod Miller

Episode 26 – Tod Miller

Legendary Karting Engine Builder | Racer | Motorsports Innovator

In Episode 26, Brad sits down with Tod Miller, one of the most respected names in karting and a legendary engine builder whose work has helped countless racers find speed on the track. A racer himself, Tod has spent decades immersed in the sport, gaining a unique perspective from both behind the wheel and under the hood.

Brad and Tod dive into some of karting's biggest topics, including engine development, tire technology, rising costs, and the challenges facing grassroots racing. They also discuss where karting fits into the future of motorsports and what needs to happen to keep the sport healthy for the next generation of racers.

Whether you're a seasoned competitor, a karting parent, or simply a fan of grassroots racing, this episode offers insight from someone who has spent a lifetime helping racers go faster.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey folks, I'm Bad Brad, and welcome to another episode of Driving Fast and Taking Chances. We're honored enough to have the legendary Todd Miller on with us today. If you've ever been affiliated with go-kart racing since about 1980, and you don't know who Todd Miller is, you've been living underneath rock. Velocity USA, the world's greatest driving suit, lighter, faster, better than what you're wearing. Suits, gloves, shoots, helmets, head and neck restraint, everything for your safety program in one location. Check us out online, velocitadashusa.com. Give us a call, 336-764-8502. Drive fast, take chances. Todd Miller, welcome to the show, buddy. I'm glad to be here. Man, we are uh how how long was the drive from Potneck Road?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

It was actually about uh 35 minutes. I uh took some back roads to get here, and actually it used to be the old way. I used to come when I worked at CKI a long time ago. But uh yeah, it was uh brought back a few memories. I'd last time I come over here, I come to Interstate, but I decided to take the back road and and uh come right down at uh RCR.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

So you say that like Potneck Road is not a back road.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Well, it is a back road. Yeah, but over the years it's gotten, you know, there's there's more and more uh houses, and you know, we got Woodleaf Speedway on Potneck Road, so it um you know we used to have a golf course too, but they uh somebody bought it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I remember that back in the day. That's been a long time ago. But I guess I came to Potneck Road. You and I were about 10, 11 years old. Uh you actually live in the house you grew up in.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

I did, I do. And uh whenever I was getting ready to get married, uh I was looking to buy, you know, I'd had my business started and I was looking to buy a house and to build a shop, and and dad and mom, they decided they didn't need that big of a house no more. And uh so I decided to buy it, and then um, and then you know, rest history. But we uh, you know, we got the shop right beside it, so I just walked to work every day and it's nice. You know, when I got to drive to town, I'm like, I don't know how people do it every day. Yeah, it's no fun, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

So your commute's nice and short, traffic's never bad.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, and with the the with the gas prices the way they are, it works out.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

It works out pretty. That's how you keep them motor prices so low, right? Yeah, that's right. That's right. And your house, one of the coolest things when I was a kid, your house is partially underground.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

It is, it's uh pretty much the the bottom level is underground, and uh the you know, we then we have upstairs upstairs above ground, and this is an A-frame.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, that's pretty cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Dad Dad built it back in the early 80s or late 70s, and um he built the bottom, and then when he later on he built the top.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

So it was always a super cool place to visit. So obviously I've known Todd and his brother for a long time. So uh oh. He got cable problems? Yeah, it's got uh see it's coming around kind of. Oh my god, she done broke everything, Todd. Yeah. All right, good deal. You good? So obviously I've known you and Jody and your dad for a really long time. We actually traveled a little bit together when we were little guys back in the day, and uh got to do a lot of racing and stuff together and got to forge a pretty good friendship with you and your dad, and um obviously your brother too, man. So uh what is it about go-kart racing that basically made you never leave? I mean, you're you're you're right in the heart and soul of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, I I you know, we looked when I was when I was getting a little bit older, uh, you know, I looked into the car stuff, but it, you know, financially and the help that you needed to do that, you know, I I never did, you know, I we looked into it, but it just never did make sense for us. And uh I was happy with the go-kart, you know, with what we was doing there. And um and I mean I just stuck with the go-karts. I mean, I really loved it, and you know, I ended up making my living doing it. So um we just never I financially it made no sense the car stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

So how uh how long have you been building motors now?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Since uh about 91 is when I started. Yeah, we uh dad dad kind of well Robin Bradshaw and dad built my stuff when you know when before I started. And uh so you know that dad kind of taught me some stuff, and then you know, I worked at went to work at CKI with Robin and them, and they taught me some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Right on. And you mentioned Robin Bradshaw, and for uh well, there's there's a lot of new guys that have no idea who that is. How instrumental do you feel Robin was to the development of the four cycle racing engine as we know it?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Robin, I feel like is one of the best, you know, to ever do it. And I've always said that. And I mean, just as smart as he is with, you know, understanding everything and and with uh you motorcycle, I mean, he could pretty much do it all.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And um was a pretty good wheel man too back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Very good, very good, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah. So how many guys would you say came through that time? I'm gonna call it that late eighty eighties, early nineties heyday um that were involved in that. I mean, you were there, a beef came through there, um Golly, he taught John how to do them, Rob did them, uh Stanley was involved. I mean, how many guys do you think came through that umbrella? Where I'm gonna call it the golden years according.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Well, I know, you know, you talked about them, and then I know Eddie Mitchw come through and uh Jeffrey Perry come through there. Wow, I didn't realize that. Yep, yep, they did, and then you know, I did, and after me, you know what I mean. I know Dwayne did, and uh I'm not I'm not sure about anybody else, but yeah, I know all of them did.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

And this is long before the tire wars ever started. We used to actually race on people don't believe this, in stock classes 450s and 600s and modified 450s and 710s on a good day, and we had uh what do we have? We had uh Continentals at night, and we had Bridgestones. If you were bougie, you might have had a dunlop during the day.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, that's right. We uh, you know, just two or three sets of tires, and that was it. You know, you had your soul set, your medium set, and your hard set.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

And we showed up and we did it and had had too much fun doing it, probably, truth be told. What if uh what do you think is the biggest change that you've seen in your I mean you're how old now, Todd?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Uh just turned 52.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

52. And and you started racing go-karts when you were uh when I was eight. Eight.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So in your 40 plus years in karting, what do you think has been the biggest change that you've seen overall?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Well, there's been a lot of changes. And you know, the the uh the the go-karts have changed. I mean, the the tires is probably the biggest thing because that's what makes the most speed. Sure. And you know, motors have changed. You know, we was doing the Briggs and Stratton stuff forever, and we thought Briggs and Stratton was it. Yeah, that was it. And you know, then uh yeah, Jimmy Sims would bring over uh and Chester Wright bring Chester has to bring over the uh the uh clone motor. And I, you know, first look at that, I was like, that ain't never gonna work. And then here we are. I mean that's everybody's got them, man. You know, with the price, you know, it definitely I think that's definitely help carding because if it was we still run Brees and Stratton motors, still stuff will be at the roof as far as price-wise. But uh, you know, the on the motor side, that was that was the biggest difference. And uh, you know, it took a while to get used to doing the overhead valve stuff, and we kind of got behind on eight ball and that a little bit and lost some business, and then but you know, we got caught back up and doing good with it. But you know, I thought that was um, you know, a pretty big deal with the motor stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So the motors have changed, obviously the tires, the chassis have changed. When you and I were kids, we didn't run bodywork. If we ran body work, it's because we went somewhere gigantic and we had a little plastic driver fairing. But now, I mean, it's like the bodies, you know, I hear two sides of the story. I hear that it's for arrow, and I look at other times, and it looks like that that body sometimes almost a weapon. Uh do you feel like I've heard people talk both ways, that if we took the bodies off of them, it would change the complexity again?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

It would probably definitely change it. I I think that you know, some of the rough driving you can get by with with the body work. And I mean, I think some of it, I think the body work can be safe too, because you know, we a lot of times we used to get wheel, you know, wheelhopped and get airborne. And you know, that normally, you know, that does still happen, but not as bad. But you know, the body work is I think it's it's probably does more safety than anything, but you know, as far as that goes, but yeah, if you took the bodies off, it'd be a lot more different, you know, driving. Sure. The drivers would be definitely driving a lot different.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And it seems like in that uh late 80s, early 90s, it was like it was almost the race to have the best chassis and the best engine. I'm not gonna say tires didn't matter because it's always where the rubber met the road, no pun intended, but it really didn't seem like we put a lot of focus and a lot of effort there. Now we got guys, you know, we're really good friends with Andy Murray. I mean, he makes his living doing tires. Uh Chris, you know, right here with track tack makes his living doing tires. There's a ton of guys out there that really just have complete businesses built around tires. I I would have never, if you and I were sitting there in 1991 and I said, Todd Miller, I'll bet you $10,000 20 years from now, I'll be about tires. You'd have looked at me and told me I was out of my mind.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, that's I mean, there's a lot of times I go back and I wish I knew then what I knew now about tires. I mean, just think how many races we could have won. And uh, you know, prep, you know, you use prep when, you know, back then you used prep when the track was wet. Yeah. I mean, that's the only time you ever use prep. Ever. And and then, you know, now we use, I mean, we use prep all the time. Even if the track is dusty, I mean, we're doing you we're putting SD 20 cleaner on them. And so we're always putting something on tires, but you know, the the tire deal is um definitely has changed a lot. And um I don't enjoy that side of it, but you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Do you think or do you foresee anybody making great strides series tour or sanctioning wise? Has anybody really put forth effort to try to remove prep from the game or tire work from the game?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Well, I don't, you know, I don't know. I know a long time ago WKA tried to do that, you know, they had some people get seriously hurt with with torches and prep, and you know, and that kind of I think it kind of ruined them a little bit. But the um I don't know, it's it's tough and because we're just so used to doing prep. And we're just so used to doing, you know, tire work. And and I really think I know a lot of people, and and this is just my opinion, and I know everybody's got their own, but you know, I I I like to tread a deal. And that's gotten big. Yeah, with and uh with Freeman, what he's doing, and you know, Maxie's got their treaded tire, and and you know, everybody don't want to spend all week working on tires. Sure. I mean, you know, they got families, right? And I mean they want to go on the weekend and have fun, have a good time. Most of them wants to spend as little as possible to race. Sure. And and you know, with with that treaded tire, I mean that's that makes a lot of that happen.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Right. So I've heard uh, you know, obviously friends with Jamie Kanoff and um man, Donnie Nall was just in the shop a few weeks ago, picked up a new suit and some other stuff. Some of these guys are saying, man, there it's not uncommon to spend three, four, five thousand dollars to go to a national with just tires right now.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

And that's right. Well, uh tires win races. And and you know, the the when you're paying what they're paying, you know, you you know, the I think about the minimum we race for is a thousand, and normally it's two thousand to five thousand. And you know, we're gonna spend what it takes to win, whether you know, whether they're paying that much or not. I mean, you know, we want to win, and you know, and and that's you know tires make speed. Sure. And I mean when you can go out there and you can change tires and you know, you pick up a tenth or two or a half a sacred. That's it huge. You know, horsepower ain't gonna make that much difference. No, you know, not legal horsepower, no. No, not legal. Even even illegal horsepower sometimes don't make that much difference. But yeah, I mean it's uh it's all tires. And I, you know, I just I'm not a I mean, I like working on tires, don't get me wrong. I've done it for years, and I like, you know, and I don't mind a prep, but the just the tire work. I mean, it's a full-time job. Sure. And uh, and you know, people just ain't got that time and they ain't got the money, you know, to do that. And I think it hurts the school.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Because if you're not doing it, you're paying somebody to do it.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

That's right. And nowadays, you know, the the younger kids and their father and their parents, I mean, they don't want to learn all that. So they want to, you know, take it the most advantage that they can, you know, for the kid, and they're gonna try to hire somebody.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah, absolutely. Now, you guys still run a race team out of your shop, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I do. We I'm I'm in I'm into a break right now. I get I get burnout. And um I I love racing and I love being at the track, but to go race and to try to do, you know, everybody else's motors and stuff, it's just just a lot. And um, and right now I'm in a break mode. So I'll probably get back going here soon. I might run, we might run a few races here and there, and then maybe get back wound up at the end of summer, but it's just it's just a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

How do you determine who's gonna drive the big red machine? Well, you know, I have people have always though this is this is this is content right here. Yeah. Because people have always wanted to know how does Todd Miller choose his drivers?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I don't I I don't well, I got, you know, I took a break, and you know, Harold was coming out with a new tricon, and I was getting an urge to go back racing for a while. And well, getting urged to go back racing, and and you know, I got got to the bug again. And uh I had taken a break for a while and I was like, you know, this this is a good time to get back going. And uh so I got O'Reilly Joyner to drive for me. And you know, you can kind of tell, you know, I kind of I can kind of watch and kind of tell, you know, kind of who's good and who's not. Sure. You know, who can get it done and who can't, who can take, you know, stuff. You know, there there's there's some drivers that, you know, you can take a first place car and win with it, but there's there are very few can take up, you know, fifth and win with it. Yeah, or get speed, or make just raw speed. I mean, some you know, it's tough. And and you know, I I called Ryan and then uh got him to drive a little bit, and that worked out that worked out good. And I mean he's a good driver. And uh, and then he had a few things going on, and I ended up getting Cameron Carter to drive. And uh and you know, we won quite a few we won the pool, Wayne Pool race a year, a couple years ago, and uh you know, so he drove for me a little bit. But I mean I don't uh you know, I I just I don't know. I I just it just happens. It just happens pretty much, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right on. And I and I've thought about renting out my stuff and doing that. I mean, I don't know. It's not that crossing my mind some, but you know Sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

How bad uh is there are there days that you miss being in the seat?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

No.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

No, yeah, and people ask me the same, like, mm-hmm. No.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

I mean, I've done it for so long. Yeah, you know, I do it all week and I just you know I took uh I don't know, about 10 years ago, maybe maybe 12, and you know, I'm 52 now, so that you know that's probably around 40, a little bit out of 40. I said, I'm gonna lose some weight because you know, I mean, got put on some weight. We like tacos, don't we? Yeah, I like I like to eat. I like to eat the older I get the more I like to eat. But yeah, I I decided to lose some weight. I said, I'm gonna get back in the seat.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

I remember this, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I'm gonna go back in the seat. And dude, it's it's it's completely different. Completely different. And I had been, I hadn't raced for a while. And uh I I run a few races, and I said, man, if I'm gonna do this, I have got to do it every week. 100%. And just like Jamie, uh Kanoff. I mean, I don't understand how he does it. I mean, but he stays in the seat a lot. And you know, and uh I admire from that, but you know, I was gonna have to race every weekend, and I just my my eyesight ain't as good. My reaction time ain't as good, and I said, this is a waste of time. Sure. So I uh but no, I do not want to be, I do not want to drive, I don't want to practice, I don't want to, I don't want to test, I don't want to be in the seat period. No one to do with that.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

You want to build motors.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I just build motors.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

You want to make go-karts go fast. Absolutely, nothing wrong with that. What is that? Is a guy that you and I grew up knowing, he told me something one time, he said, Brian, you can't do something, you can't do something sometime. Everybody else does all the time, it's meant to be that good. That's right. He was not wrong about that, was he?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Well, you got these, you got these young kids, and I mean, I mean, in early 20s, late teens, and I mean, that that's all they want to do is drive. Sure. And and they got that burn to do it. And I used to have that. Oh, yeah. Dude, and we all did. Yes. And I mean, when they're I mean, the reaction time's fast or strong. I mean, that's all they think about is driving. And I, and you know, we get older and we got all kinds of things to think about, and driving's the last thing I want to think about.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Absolutely. So if I can get Freeman to put on a 500-pound cage cart, treaded tire class with a three and a half horsepower, and you have to be 50 or older, and we're racing for peanuts.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, we can probably do that. You mean I tell you how to do that? Because that's what I told him.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

I said we did a little promo video with uh chasing them in the ice cream shop down there last year, Eric and I. And I was like, man, you need a senior tour. He's like, What are you talking about? I said, about 500 pounds, so we ain't gotta lose no weight. Put us a little bitty motor on there. I said it might be fun, man. Be like the olden days. Yeah. This portion of our show brought to you by Woodleaf Raceway Park right on Facebook. Check out the world's greatest dirt go-kart track with a focus on kids and family. They have ungo-karted go-kart racing. Jeff Freeman and his staff work tirelessly to make sure your kids are safe and having a great time. Check them out on Facebook at Woodleaf Raceway Park. So uh now Jody, your brother, he works with you full time. Who else is there in the shop?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Uh, Dad. My dad comes in. So Rodney's there. Yeah, he, you know, we got last couple years we got really busy. And honestly, really more than we can probably handle. And uh the shop just stayed a mess. And I, you know, I was kind of, you know, it's really just me and Jody and Rodney Wood would come helping some. And uh, and he still does. He still comes, you know, a couple days a week. I I get him there as much as I can or much as he'll come. But, you know, it was just so much to try, you know, to keep up with everything. So dad comes in, he'll he'll tear some motors down for us, cleans them up, and and keeps the shop clean. So that's helped out a lot. And it really just it's just us four, and me and Jody four times. So, you know, and then you know, Rodney comes in when he can and helps out.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

How many uh how many engines do you do you go through a year if you were guests?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I don't know how many we probably do a year. Um, I get a lot of people that ask that, and I really don't figure it, but we do around 15 to 20 a week, probably. And and it depends, and we used to do a whole lot more when it was flatheads, because I used to have th I used to have five of us, and there was three of us just building motors, that's all we did. And uh, but you know, we'd probably do around 15 to 20, and and then it depends on the week, but you know, Jody does the majority of them. I mean, I stay busy on the phone or ordering stuff, or you know, I got you know, I I mainly do the some of the machine work, like the honing of the cylinders, the valve seat work, I do all that myself, and then uh, but Jody probably does the majority. And I I piddle with some odd end stuff, like some modified stuff, or maybe some do car stuff that you know, just some odd stuff. I'll do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

How long does it take to uh start to finish? A guy's engine comes in. If you figured out real lifetime, if you had to turn and burn one, how quick could you turn the motor around if you had it?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Probably around four hours. Yeah, I would say it's anywhere from three to five hours. And it and a lot of it depends on you know what how it was taken care of. Sure. You know, and and what we have to do. But yeah, I'm talking about from tearing it down, cleaning it up, doing machine work, putting it together, putting it on the dyno, running it, you know, getting it off and getting ready to ship. I mean, it it's probably a good four or five hours.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

What is uh, so you guys, I guess the current evolution is the clone, right? Uh what does a good clone motor make these days?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Uh right around anywhere 15, well, I say 16 horsepower. Okay. On my dyno, you know, we we was right around 15, 15 and a half, but with some of the rule changes over the last year or two, it's gone up. So we're right around 16.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

What did flathead motors make back in the day when we were kids?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

13, 13 and a half.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So it's not really been that much more increase, but it's still been some. Is the is that new clone, is that project, is it strong, is it durable, is it pretty reliable? They figured it out?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yep, it's really good. You know, to begin with, some of the consistency was all over the place. Sure. And kind of depending, you know, trying to figure out what we need and what the motors need, but you know, I've you know, I when they first come out, I did not like them. Sure. And and now I do not like working on bricks. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, it's funny because you got how many years working on brigs?

SPEAKER_01 19:38

A lot. And I don't want to work on them. I mean, it's just like I every time I got to work on one. But you know, the stock flathead stuff, I do not build them no more. Now we'll do the modified stuff, but you know, we do them, and I don't mainly it's just motors that I've already done before I'll redo.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Sure. The uh the clone motor, uh, from the motor out of the box, uh, how much difference is there between a full race prep engine and a motor out of the box, less governor, obviously?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Well, you know, when we get them from Dino, they're they don't have a cam in them. You know, they're kind of yeah, they're not like uh a predator motor, like you buy, you know, more. You know, when you when we first started getting them, you know, they come with a gas tank, they come with a governor's well like we don't get that no more. Okay. So basically you got a piston, a rod, and a crank, and a and a the short block, and you got the head and the carburetor on it, but it's pretty much, you know, so it's not run. It's basically a builder's kit. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I mean they kind of done away, you know, that I think they done away with all the stuff we wasn't using. Sure. So, you know, I guess it saved them money and time.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Right, right. Good deal. And how much time can a guy expect out of a motor now from start to finish? How how how long does it go between intervals and how many times you want to rebuild it before it's time to get it?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Well, a lot of it depends on how the competition you're racing against. You know, I got some people that run two or three weekends and send them back and just want us to check them. And uh, and then I got some people that'll run them 18, 20 races and send them back. And, you know, I got mostly I tell people around 12, 14 races, you know, send them back. And sometimes we'll just do a top-end rebuild if the bottom end looks good. So, you know, don't it works out pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

What's the cost to build a motor today?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Uh, just like a brand new motor, you're looking at 1500. Including the motor? That's the motor. Okay. Yeah, that's the motor. And uh some people are more than that, some people are a little bit less. We're kind of right in the middle, I would say. And like a rebuild is around 500.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

I remember back in the day I found uh actually it wasn't even back in the day, not long ago. Last year, I was going through some stuff at dad's house, some old go-kart pictures, and there was an invoice in there where dad had picked up a motor from CKI. Still at Brookstown Avenue. How much do you think we paid for a box stock motor brand new?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I would probably say it was around $450.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

$385. I was like, man, those were the days. I bet you couldn't even touch a sticker for that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Nah, like when we was when we was finishing up the flathead stuff, building new ones, I want to say they was around $1,600 or $1650. Yeah. I mean, it's just because you know the parts prices was so much so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah. So uh this tread attire thing has come along. Also, we see way more little kids now. We see the juice box. It just looks like there's way more ways. When you and I were kids, I think rookie stock, we had to be what six, seven years old to even begin racing go-karts. Has that been, have you seen that be more of a feeder where you're seeing more people in karting or are you seeing karting decline?

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Uh I've seen karting decline a little bit. And you know, the the the kids stuff I've seen decline. And and I think a lot of that comes from the tire stuff. And um, you know, it's just it's it's just a lot, you know, for a parent to try to learn. Sure. You know, I can sell them the best motor, we can sell them the best go-kart, I can set it up. But if you don't know, have somebody there to track, you know, telling them what to do on tires, I mean, yeah, tuning it. That they're they're you know, and I I feel like the the the junior stuff has suffered the most. And because there's some places you'll go, you only have five or ten carts. Some places, you know, when everybody gets together, you'll have 30. And uh, you know, back when we run, I mean junior class was a big madness. Yeah, it was big. And um, you know, and I just I feel like the tire, you know, that's my opinion, and you know, but I feel like the tire stuff has hurt the the junior stuff a lot. And then, you know, you do have the the rookie stuff, the little juice box classes, and then they got a bunch of them out there, and and um, but yeah, I like to be able to get the junior classes bigger, and you know, I think the treaded tire stuff hopefully will help some of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah, it would be nice to see. Because like you said, it was mega big when we were kids. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

And I don't I don't think you know, you hear a lot of stuff on on social media about this and that, and you know, I think there's a place for everybody. And you know, whether you want to run treaded tires, you want to run meat maxi tires, you want to run the Reaper tires. I mean, there's there's a place for everybody, and you know, I think the social media kind of hurts some of the racing stuff in all kinds of racing. It ain't just go-karts. And uh, but I think that um I hope the tread is tired. I I know the treaded tires stuff has brought more some cars back. Sure. You know, that got out of it because of that. Because they don't have the time. You know, you can show up with one set of tires and you don't have to work on tires all right.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Which is which is where we were when we were kids for all practical purposes.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

And like, so if I haven't really seen the junior stuff take off with the tread stuff that good yet, and hopefully, you know, it will. But uh, you know, that'd be nice if a if a guy comes into my shop and says, I want to get my kid racing, you know, sell him a motor, sell him a cart, one set of tires, and then you know, you got to work on your driving, you gotta work on air pressure, staggering stuff. I mean, that that'd be nice to get back to. And it's kind of like it's kind of like the deal over at Millbridge, you know, the wing cart stuff. Yeah, and uh, you know, that's real big with the kids. And you know, I kind of look at you know, a lot of that's just because of the tire stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Sure. So well, it makes it easy, it makes it understandable. You don't have to be a master chemical expert at such because really, man, it's almost like the chemist or the one that seems to be rising to the top.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yep, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

And we've seen it too in big car racing. Uh Bowman Gray just finally cracked down on tire prepping after, I don't know what, 75 years, they've decided we're gonna check tires now. So everybody's chasing it over there too. But uh it'll it will be interesting to see. I talked to guys who didn't understand the process back in the day when we raced rookie stock, this, that, and the other. At what point did WKA realize that 265 pounds with no restrictor plate and no body work, at what point did they realize they was gonna get us hurt?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

You know, that's that's a very good question because I mean we used to run junior modified junior limited, yes. Yeah, junior and modified.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Did didn't we weigh like 285 with a modifier?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I don't I don't remember the the the weight stuff very good, but yeah, we run no restrictor and and you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And they couldn't understand why we were faster than most of the senior classes.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, but yeah, you know, you only had I think there was only like one restrictor plate back then, or maybe two. It was rookie. And and then you moved when the junior classes, you had no plate, and then you had junior modified. Yes. And and yeah, that was that was fun. But you know, we had back then we didn't have the big tires. Right. We weren't making the turn speed we make now. Them kids now, I mean, they're fast. And even with the plates that we got in them, I mean, I mean, they they book it pretty good. So yeah, I don't know what you know when all that when all that changed, but yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah, I think about it back in the day, and I'm like, man, I remember the first time I ran a junior limited race uh was Daytona, I guess about 87, 88, and I was sitting there thinking, and um we qualified, I think maybe you set the poll when I was outsider third. We were all CKI stuff back in the day, and we were faster than Limited Light. And they were like, How? And some, I think Stanley, somebody said they weigh 35 pounds less. They're gonna be, but they're gonna be faster. But yeah, I'm I'm glad they figured that out and started sliding plates in there to get the kids where they need to be.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

But you know, they've been running some junior modified stuff, and and you really the kids have been doing good with it, you know. I mean, a lot of them has, and and it took them a little while to adapt, but you know, the junior, I think there's a lot of them kids that like just going fast. And uh, you know, we did when we was that young.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

We love going fast.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Nowadays I want to go slow, so yeah. But yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Give me time to recover.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

So, you know, we do a little bit of stuff with the uh quarter magic crowd. We we do a lot of stuff with the quarter magic kids, actually. Um, they seem to have a really good process and program for getting new people into the sport. Is carting doing anything, summer of that? I see what Jeff's doing with Freeman, obviously. He's got it figured out. I think they do an arrive program and you can come. Is anybody else embracing or fostering any of that? No, no. That's unfortunate to see.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I don't think there's really no, there's really no leadership in the carton deal. I think it's more of like an outlaw deal. I mean, you know, kind of it's everybody does their own thing. You know, you got everybody's kind of branches off to their own series. Um, you know, I and there's just nobody that steps up, you know, there's no that well, there is WK, but it ain't like it used to be. Right. They were the authority back then. They was the authority. Yes. And uh, you know, now WK has come back some, and and uh, you know, Daytona's a lot better than it used to be, and but you know, there's no you know, authority out there no more, and I think that's hurt. But you know, there's really nothing for the you know step in. And I see it, you know, there is I take that back, you know, Austin Baker does a little driving school, and I think that's worked out good, you know, and and uh there's a few that's probably done some stuff like that, but not not no really.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

You know, because it used to be you uh you looked in the classified paper, because we didn't have the internet, you looked in the classified paper and you found somebody that was selling out where your buddy was selling out, and you could buy a race-ready go-kart for $1,500. $2,000 back in the day was some premium. Oh, yeah. That was some, you know what that was? That was God rest the soul, that was some Steve Jones quality stuff right there. But you'd buy a go-kart, you show up down here at North Davidson or Tyro or um, golly, what the one at the fairgrounds used to run in Salisbury, and you were ready to go racing. And if you could drive a lick, you were fairly competitive right out of the get-go. That's right. Uh, what did it cost a guy to get started today? If I if I showed up at your shop.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

It's gonna be about eight to ten grand.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Just for one go-kart.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Well, you you're gonna be about if you're just gonna get one thing ready, you're gonna be right around eight grand. That's crazy. But I mean, it's you know, it it's all racing. True. I mean, it's all racing. I mean, it's just it's not just go-karts. I mean, it's you know, everybody's got them same old stories about, you know, yeah, I could buy this beater up car and go, you know, and it's just and what are you gonna do with it?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah, everybody, you know, it times have changed and everybody has, you know, you don't have many secrets no more. You know, there ain't this little gadget here that helps. I mean, it's just everybody can buy the best stuff. Absolutely. And, you know, when you know, if you want to win, that's what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Now, along about sometime in the 90s was the evolution of the first real offset carts. Um, and it's really the first time for me that I remember hearing Harold's name and hearing Phantom. Man, they came up with it. The stalker was the first one, yeah, and it changed everything, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Well, you know, um you know, Robin, I think, done the first offset cart, you know, the the LTO. And there might have been another offset cart before then, you know, like the white chassis or something. I'm not 100% sure. But you know, I think you know, Robin was the first one to do that, you know, with the laser LTO.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I do remember the LTO, but I I don't know why. It just seemed like in our area, it's like that Harold really took off about that time.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

In um, I say around '93, I want to say, somewhere in '93 or '94, the stalker. And I I mean that pretty much changed. I mean, that that changed a lot. So yeah. But yeah, I think uh Robin was the first one to have it. He had a weight jacker on the left rear. I remember the weight jacker. Yeah, I had the weight jacker on the left rear. And then I think the Olympic came out with the weight jacker, and I think maybe Harold was the first one to do an offset cart with no weight jacker. I don't, I'm not 100% sure you'd I had to ask him with that. But uh, but yeah, whenever I whenever I left CKI, it was around 94. I got hooked up with Harold, and that's what we run first was a stalker.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Yeah, and those things won everything everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

It was the it was the best sweet spot for sure. Well, you know, we was I was used to running lasers, and um, and actually whenever I left whenever I left CKI, I was gonna stay running laser, and then we I just couldn't work out a deal with them. And actually dad got me hooked up with Harold, and um when I started riding them cars, that was that was just a night and day difference. It was just it was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Now you've never been, you've always been pretty quiet. You've always been a really good driver. You've never been one to brag, but I'm gonna make you brag just a little bit. How many go-kart races have you won?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

If you were guessing, have you won more than a hundred?

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

200?

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Well, I probably won more than 200, too. 300. Well, I've been racing forever. Dude, I was eight years old when I started. How many races do you think you won, Todd? I don't know. I I have no idea. I didn't I don't keep up with that. I don't keep up with it.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So how many championships?

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Won a lot. Within a lot of state and all nationals. I don't I don't do numbers.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

So but yeah, I don't um So I t when I tell people, you know, uh somebody asked the other day, and I said, We're gonna have Todd Miller on the show. They're like, Todd Miller, a football player? I was like, no, no, Todd Miller with a go-kart race. And they're like, who's Todd Miller? And I said, well, I said, arguably the only guy that I can think of, if you look at winning percentage, that could rival Todd Miller, maybe Robin Bradshaw, and he didn't race long enough for it to go. Todd had way more years. I said, I don't think anybody's won more championships or races overall. I know you're not a guy to brag. I'm gonna brag on you. I finished second to you a whole bunch.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Well, I mean, there's a there's a lot of good ones out there. I mean, hell Ron Moon was good. Ron was awesome. He was real good. I mean, he he was a real good driver. And um I just I put so much time in it.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

You know, I I think you know But but it wasn't just dirt ovals. No, we run Gold Cup races.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Well, I I really wasn't that good with the Gold Cup stuff. We run run some races. I don't know if we really won any races. We run some, but you know, we've done some pavement oval stuff, some dirt oval stuff, and uh, but I I just spent so much time in it. It's it's all I thought about. You know, whenever I was you know, my later teens and my early twenties, I mean, that's all I wanted to do was race. And I mean, I just worked at it. And I think anytime you got that much passion for it, it's gonna be hard to beat. It's it's it's you know, I mean, you know, there is natural talent. I I mean I had some talent. I don't I don't think I was all that, you know, just just all natural talent. I mean, I just spent so much time testing, you know, just working. I mean, I worked in the shop all the time, and uh, that's all I thought about, all I wanted to do. And um, you know, so you know, I I think when somebody puts that much time and effort in it with a little bit of talent, you know, that that makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I remember we were kids, actually, your dad running us off when it was time for y'all to work on the go-karts and set stuff up. Well, we'd be back here in the pool or whatever, and he'd be like, all right, Todd, this time we got to get out here and get to work, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

That dad made me work on my own stuff. And I mean, you don't see that nowadays, and I think that hurts some. Uh dad, my dad wanted, he said, if something if you're gonna race, you're gonna you're gonna work on it. Sure. And uh I think that went a long way. And it, you know, made me appreciate what I had. And we, you know, me and dad didn't have much of a lot of money, so we had to take care of what we had, and uh, and I think that made a big difference. But, you know, as I that but you know, when I was at, you know, I wanted to work on it. I wanted to learn about it. And then I, you know, you know, dad used to make all the calls and everything, and then when I got to a certain point, he said, if you want to get better, you're gonna have to start making all the calls and stuff. So, you know, I I kind of took it over and and uh but yeah, yeah, that's that's just all I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

This episode brought to you by Bassett Racing Wheels. Whether you're looking for a 15-inch inertia wheel, rolled edge, armor edge protection, whatever it is that you need, D-O-T-I-M-C-A, Bassett Racing Wheel has you covered. Bassett Racing Wheels is the leader in short track wheels nationwide. BassettWheels.com for all your racing wheel needs. Another one of those hard to answer questions, excluding yourself, because I'm gonna put you in there where I want you to go. If right now you had to name the top five guys you've ever seen do it, who are they?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Man, I I don't know. That's that's pretty much. I mean, I gotta put you on the spot, man.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Give me five. That's a big feeling out there. Give me five in no particular order. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

I don't know. I mean, it it's just it's there's different times. I mean I agreed. There's different, I mean, I really think. I mean, I was I I I really respected Ron Moon with what he could do. And I I mean, he could do, you know, I felt like I was really good with the stock stuff. And he could do the stock, the modified, the opens, he could do all that. And uh, I mean, you know, back when I raced, that was my rival. You know, that's that's who I you know, that's who I wanted to beat. And you know, that's who we, you know, raced against. And I mean, you know, I I I don't know. There's I my brain goes dead when it I mean, I don't know. I there's there's a lot of guys out there.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

There's a bunch of names you could throw out there.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

There's there's well there is, but I I'm my memory, I mean I just can't think that fast.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Of the drivers that you see that are right now, that you're popping out motors for, you're out there seeing weekly, who do you feel like somebody really we really need to watch right now that maybe hadn't blossomed or maybe they have blossomed that maybe the next latest, greatest thing? Well, you know, go-kart racing's always been the foundation.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

So well, I mean, you know, definitely Chase Williamson's on the top right now. Sure. Which I mean, he's riding the best up. I mean, you know, he's got you know the best guy all doing tires, and that's what matters. But I I can, you know, when I watch him, he, you know, I just you know you can just see it. I mean, you know, and I mean there's there's a bunch of them out there, and I, you know, I don't I don't like naming people. But you know, there there's there's a bunch of good ones out there. I mean, uh there's a few, it's just like you like we talked about earlier, there's a few that can take a fifth place go-kart and win with it, it don't matter how good you are. If you got the wrong tires on, it don't matter. Right, you know, but you've got them guys that can get a little bit more out of it. And uh, you know, you you know, just it's I think the drivers nowadays ain't as good as what they used to be, in my opinion, because you know, we s rely so much on tires and so much on you know prep the prep. And uh I think I think drivers, you know, back in the 90s were were a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

At what point do you think uh, you know, we talked about this a little bit. When we were kids, if there was a state race going on, there was 500 people at the state race, if you put on a money race, let's just say now both of these tracks did exist when we were kids. I guess when we were when we were little, little there was no woodleaf. There was a mill bridge, but our dads didn't like us together because the concrete bag right away. But let's just say that there was a woodleaf and there's a mill bridge. How far away are those tracks from each other?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Um I don't know, probably about 20 minutes, 20 minutes. Not far, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

So if one was running a state race, now I'm we're gonna pick this back. It's 1989. One of them's running a state race, and one of them is running a money race. We would have 500 go-karts at the state race, and there'd be 40 people at the money race. That's right. When did that change? And why did it change?

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Well, you know, I I and I and I think about this a lot. And, you know, back I think during the heydays of racing, you know, that's all we raced for was trophies and points. You know, we had the state series, we had the national series, we had your little local races that you got ready for the bigger races. Absolutely. And uh, and then you had probably four decent money races a year, three or four. You know, you always had around Thanksgiving, and and you know, there was a few of you know, July the fourth money race and stuff. But then it's like now it's every weekend is a money race. And, you know, when that changed, I know, you know, the Tri-State series, you know, kind of done a series, you know, I think I think kind of when WK started to, you know, lose their grasp on it, and I think some of that was from the tire prep, you know, we was talking about, you know, they was trying to enforce it and people didn't want to enforce it. And kind of when they went up when when they was backsliding, you know, the money races started popping up. And they figured out, you know, if we pay $2,000, then you know, we'll get more entries. But, you know, over time, and I thought I thought the money deal was great. But you know, now I look I think it's kind of hurt. It's kind of hurt the sport.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

And uh Well, we we we know it has. I mean, how many go-karts come to Daytona now, ballpark?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Well, you know, it's gotten better. I don't know how many entries they had this pastime, but there's a lot more classes too from what they used to be. And hell, you know, when we used back in the heyday, I mean, there would be over 2,000, and you know, we only run one class a day. Sure. And now you got the same person running six classes a day. Absolutely. So, you know, that's that's changed a lot. But uh, you know, I man, I was all for the money deal, and I just really think, you know, it's gotten to where, you know, with the money, you there's only a certain little bit that's going to win that money.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

And then you got more people that's just donating. And and and then the per the with the purchase going up, your your parking has gone up, your entry fees have gone up.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

That's mind-blowing to me. Guys have to pay to park their hauling. How much did we pay when we were kids?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Uh, we didn't pay nothing. How about at the national? No, we didn't pay nothing. You just had to get your name in early. Yeah. I mean, sponsors, I guess, that got preferential sponsored.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Preferential parking, but yeah, I mean, uh, where where was the first time that you showed up and they charged you to park?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

No, I want to say Amelia was one of the first places that was parking was paying making people pay for parking. Were you feelings hurt when you got there? Yeah, but you know, I we never I hated paying for parking. Oh, I still do. Man, when me and Harold was racing together, I remember, you know, I I would I would do the parking and I'd I'd be on second, third, fourth row. I mean, because I didn't, I wanted to pay the minimum or pay nothing. I was tight. I was tight. Harold said, listen, I'm gonna take care of the parking from now on because I want to be up front. Oh, I want to be up front. So, but yeah, that's you know, it's just, you know, it's kind of like me and somebody else talking the other day. It's it's it's just kind of like gambling now. You're putting money in to try to win money back. Sure. And I mean, you know, it's just uh, you know, we're putting all the you know, we're putting all the money up just to try to win it back. And and uh and I don't mind paying for parking, and I don't mind at at a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

You don't mind paying now, because you've gotten used to it. Well we've tempered it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah, but you know, I know it's a lot for the tracks, you know, the to get, you know, everybody wants parking. They help people nowadays don't think they can go to a race unless they're buying parking. You know, unless they got a parking spot, they don't feel like they can go race. And uh and and I see that all the time. And I don't, you know, I know it's a lot of work for the tracks and the series, and I know it costs a lot to put the races on, but you know, it's and I don't mind paying some, but man, some of these, I mean, it's just like you know, some of the races we go to, I mean, it's $500 for one or two parking spots. Man, and we don't listen, we don't get hookups, we don't get cable TV, we don't get a place to put your haul in. Yeah, it's just a spot.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

So I I showed up in 2006 at Miami Homestead Carting Complex when I was still racing the two cycle stuff. Um, I think you and I reconnected a little bit during that time talking about stuff, but I show up down there and Bill Wright, the guy who owns the series. I got there early, and uh all I had was the vehicles from my my business. So I don't have a half-ton pickup and a 12-foot trailer, and you know, we're two cycle racing, so we don't even control our tires. And uh we show I show up down there and I have a small toter home, a sport deck, a 17-foot renegade, and all I had was was my stacker trailer because it's what we use for business. And he goes, Hey, how you doing? I don't think I know you. And we he you know, introduced himself. He said, Uh, you need to get parked, and I was like, Yeah, yeah, no problem. He takes that magical wheel and he rolls down the side of my hall and he walks up there and he shows me this map. He goes, I got this available, I got all this available, and all this available. I said, Well, how much is that one right there? And he did his little math, he said, That'd be $2,200. Cool. I said, What? He said, That's $2,200. I said, Why? He goes, Well, that's front row, it's pretty parking. I said, Do I own the spot like forever? Do I always get to use it? He goes, No, no, that's for the weekend. I said, Well, how much is this row? He goes, That'd be about $1,650. I said, How much is the back row? And he said, It's like $850. I said, I'm gonna park out here with a spectators park and just roll my stuff in. He goes, That's not an option. I was mind blown. But then again, and and here's the thing, and I I I use that as a segue for this. Florida winter tour, for example. The first one I went to, Todd, we had about 600 go-karts there. Um, which, and I mean 600 go-karts, not 600 entries, 600 go-karts. Because there you've got Minimax, our rookies, you've got Junior, which is our deal restricted, uh, senior Max, which would be basically open motor. Uh, then you had masters, which would be over 32 years old, and then we had one two-speed class, all rotax. So you got five classes, right? And a handful of guys are riding maybe open and DD2, but you can't ride the same cart because it's completely different configuration. So you've got 500 plus there, right? We all paid $800 for an entry fee. It included two sets of tires, five gallons of fuel, two quarts of oil. You never have control of your tires, they're in a box. You walk in there, you mount them, you give them back, they go back in that storage container. We all roll into something called park for me, something French, I don't know what that means. But there was there was no way to cheat the tire.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Because when we came off the grid, we went back into impound, your wheels and tires went off, they went back in there. What was awesome about that is we would show up, and I know y'all still see it in dirt. You'd have 70 go karts in a class, and the outhouse to the penthouse was three tenths of a second. Yeah, tight. It was amazing. We paid an eight hundred dollar entry fee, and guess how much we raised for?

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Ain't that something? Yeah, and you know who complained?

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Nobody.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Ain't that something? Yeah. So, you know, we've we've talked other series and stuff. Why does it seem to work in the two-cycle world? Even National Enduro, why does it seem to work in the two-cycle world and some of those other deals, but in dirt oval carting, it's more, more, more, and more. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 44:14

I don't know. Because I mean, I see it all the time. I mean, it's like, you know, we judge what they're paying and where we're going. Sure. And, you know, if it's if it's not a thousand or more, it's like it ain't worth going. And we're just like, but I don't pay enough.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

How many, how many positions pay?

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Normally it's just sometimes it's just the top five. Normally it's top five. Uh sometimes it's just top three. And then, you know, if you get a bigger purse or a bigger race, you know, it'd be a top ten or maybe a little bit farther back. And uh, you know, they had that Kimball race pass a couple weeks ago, and they pay back pretty good through the field. And uh, but yeah, that's you know, I don't know. It's it's the dirt deal. And I mean, you know, but we got people, you know, now in the the race, you know, we got people that's making a living doing it. So they they're looking for the most, you know, bang for a buck, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Um yeah, no, it's a it is uh it has definitely changed for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

I mean, if they had if they said, you know, we're gonna race for trophies, they wouldn't make nobody show up. I bet you're probably right. No, I know I'm right. Ain't nobody showing up. I mean, ain't nobody showing up for no trophies. And I mean, we used to, I mean, dude, we did.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

How many races did you win trophies at?

SPEAKER_01 45:21

A lotless. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Uh, but we also weren't paying for parking. No. There's a lot of other variables, and I get it. I do believe that the racers uh deserve an increased purse. One of the things that was really surprising to me, I went, man, this has been way too long ago, because I don't know when y'all started this. Uh did some jackets for uh Tammy and Tommy. Went down to Liberty. And uh he's like, uh Brad, come on down here on a Saturday and watch. You've been gone a long time.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

That sounds like him.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Every feature started single file.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

When did that start?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, well, because we kept having cautions. No, no, no, no. But we had cautions when we were kids too. Yeah, but it's we didn't have bodywork. Yep. I, you know, I I don't know what kind of time frame it was, but I remember it. And I mean, because it was like we could never get double file starts to start. I mean, because the tracks were, you know, we used to have multiple grooves. Sure. And now it's it's more like a one and a half groove track. And it was just like if you were on the outside, I mean, it was caution after caution after caution.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Is there no way to fix that, Todd? I don't know. How did we have multiple grooves and y'all don't?

SPEAKER_01 46:17

I think it's something a lot of the tires and tire preps. You know, I I think that's that's a lot of it, and it's a lot of track preparation too. And some of the dirt just wore out. And uh, but I never heard that.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Never heard wore out and dirt.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Well, I mean, there's just, you know, you don't replenish it and you know, it gets used up. And um, yeah, but I just, you know, it was just like it just the the races kept going longer and longer to try to get it to go double five, and then finally they just said, you know, we eventually go single file, so we're just gonna start single file.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

And um, and you know, and you know, it's just uh yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

So guy looking to get started go-kart racing today, he's watching the podcast, he's excited, he knows who Todd Miller is. What advice would you give to a new carter, regardless of age, what advice would you give to a new go-kart racer?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Well, I mean, you do you mainly get hooked up with the right people and and find out who worked for you. I mean, because I get, you know, there's some customers I just work good with, and then there's some that you know other people work good with and and you know, getting good equipment. I mean, well, first it just depends on, you know, if you're getting your kids started, uh making sure they want to do it. Sure. You know, just and I and I see that a lot, you know, just you know, get something that that's decent, used, and just see if they want to do it, and if they want to do it, and just you know, just keep getting you know into it more and more and finding somebody that'll help you.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Do you think the reason that we've seen the evolution of older cart racers, and I'm just gonna use it as a loose term, Jamie. You were just mentioned Jamie, for example. Do you think that we've seen almost these professional level go-kart racers because it is so expensive to move up to even though go-kart racing is expensive? If I were gonna run uh a major campaign, uh, one driver, multiple classes, and I really wanted to go at it, I wanted to contend for all the big runs everywhere. What am I gonna spend a year, if you were guessing?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

I don't man, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Can I do it for 50?

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Oh, yeah, you could well, it'd be tough, I think. It'd be tough to do it for 50.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Can I do it for 75?

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah, you could probably do it for 75.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

But I can't go main level car racing for 75.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

I mean, I could I mean I could maybe go to Ballman Gray and beat the fenders off of it, but you know, I can't go cars tour for that.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

You know, I get a lot of people that that moves up the car. Oh, it's just gonna be so much cheaper to run cars, it's gonna, and I just don't see that. I mean, you know, I think I think it's I think it's whatever you want to do. If I like go-kart racing, because I mean, you can take one or two people to the track and race, and you can work on your own set. You know, with the with the car racing, you gotta have more people. And, you know, I just I just don't, you know, but it's whatever you want to do. If if you like to go-kart racing, stay in the go-kart racing. I mean, I love go-kart racing, and I mean, I just that was my home, and I make my living doing it, so I just stayed in it.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

So uh again, that evolution, and like I say, so many people get to that point and they see, and here's the thing I mean, you take somebody like uh Chase. Chase is not gonna leave premium level carting to go get in mediocre cars. Uh, didn't Yarburrow just move up recently?

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Yeah, he moved up to some dirt car stuff. And I mean, I think he done all he could do with the go-kar stuff. I mean, hell, he was good. Yeah, he was probably one of the top ones, you know, we talk about. I mean, he was one of the top ones, and he drove for me some. And uh, but I think he just got burnt out probably on the go-kart deal. And I mean, he came back a few weeks ago and raced and won. But uh, yeah, it's it's you know, I think he just wanted a different something different to do, and he had the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Right, but I I think also it's very eye-opening when they jump over to that because uh you said it's uh if I wanted the best of the best of the best, the best Todd Miller motor, one set of prep tires, I'm gonna spend eight grand. Do you know what I can buy brand new in the Dirt Late model world for $8,000?

SPEAKER_01 49:43

What?

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Car-wise? Yeah, absolutely nothing. I could pay, I could pay for a body, I can maybe get a set of shots. I mean, uh to build a brand new, just a brand new crate car is fifty, sixty thousand dollars these days. You can probably find a good use for 30, 35 grand, whatever it may be, uh, but kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

And y'all don't race for that money, and they don't race for that much money. And that's the old thing. It's like, it's you know you know, maybe we race for too much money. Y'all do, y'all do, y'all the ones that ruined it, my biggest. I think we did, but you know, you got the the car stuff and you say, you know, they got these, you know, they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and and then they win a $1,500 race. We we we don't even go race sometimes for $1,500.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

But you also got to look at the amount of work that goes in. I mean, uh the uh what is what is what is the crown jewel of carting today?

SPEAKER_01 50:28

I'm gonna say, man, I I I like the Wayne Pool race.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

You know, what does it pay to win the top class?

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Well, when the last year Wayne Pool paid $20,000 to win.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

$20,000 to win.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

And then last the year before, which we won, and we it paid $10,000.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

What did it cost real money to go win $10,000?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I don't know. You know, I don't well, because we have everything. So, you know, you know, you just pay for your expenses that weekend and and and some tires. I mean, it's it's once you got everything, it's not that bad. But when you get everything.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

When you say some tires and you say it fast enough, it don't sound bad.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

It ain't bad at all.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

How many, how many some tires did we have to get to go?

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Oh, we had I probably had about 20 or 25 sets. How many? 20 or 25 sets. But now I'm gonna say now Now, some of those are seasoned, you've had them a while. Now that I can't remember this past Wayne Pool race, but the one that we won, I mean, it was buy tires at the track. Really? Yeah, I think it was by tires. You could buy two up to two sets, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

And how how much love and affection can eight tires possibly get in a race weekend? They get a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Yeah, yeah, they get a lot. I mean, it's it's that's that's what makes it go fast.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

But you said, just to make sure everybody understands, you said 20 to 25 sets.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

So how do you because and one of the things I used to find comical is uh I'd show up to help somebody or go down here to Woodleaf or whatever, and they'd show up and their go-kart be sitting there on the stand, they have no tires on, no wheels and tires, which probably smart because it's a wonder that your studs ain't wore out as much as they go off and on.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Oh, we wear them out, we wear them out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we wear a lot of, we wear a lot of lug nuts out.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

So I'm sitting there watching, and uh I I forgot who I was standing there watching. Actually, you know, this is long enough ago. It was the Pedula boys. And uh it was the were you there the night they caught their go-kart on fire with the torch?

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Yeah, it was that night. And they were yelling at each other. They were brothers. You know how brothers could be. Oh, yeah, me and my brother go at it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Well, we're not as bad now. We've gotten older, but you back in the day. Yeah, now y'all love each other.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

You used to fight all the time. Yeah, yeah. So uh anyway, uh, I watched them boys before they ran the first lap of practice, put on four different sets of tires.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Oh, I believe it. Track changes. Oh, nonsense. Track changes, but yeah, you know, you it's kind of you know, nowadays you go to the track, you go with one go-kart. Sometimes you have a spare and you got two motors, and then you got rows of tires. You know, 20, 20, and 20 sets really ain't that many. I mean, you know, there is a lot of people. You're brainwashed, Todd. Oh, I'm brainwashed, but there is 80 tires. There is more. I mean, uh, you know, I know I know my customers take more than that.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Okay, all right, here's the deal. 1988, how are you going to the racetrack? What did your tow rig look like? I know for sure because I slept in that tow rig.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Yeah, well, I mean, there was a uh when we there for a long time, it was a homemade trailer.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

It was a homemade trailer and a gray Chevrolet van, work van.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Yeah, we we had we had a lot of different vehicles.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

No, but I'm just saying 1988, what did that trailer look like? This episode brought to you by Jeff Hill Trailer Sales in Modoc, Indiana. Jeff Hill Trailer Sales.com has got everything you need cargo, utility, stacker, full blown race trailer, whatever you need, Jeff and his crew will get you taken care of. Jeff Hill TrailerSales.com, check them out today.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

It it had one go-kart in it, one motor, and two sets of tires. I mean, in late in the late 80s, and then um, you know, for a long time that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember I just remember, you know, even you know, early 90s, you know, we had more, you know, when I started my own business and uh started doing it on my own, you know, you just had we had different levels of preps. You know, we had you know soft, medium, then we had, you know, quite you know, some different older stuff and some new tires. And then that's all, you know, we didn't do cycling back then. Yeah, no, we didn't. You know, when it when it kind of wore out, that was done. We threw it away. Yeah, we threw it away. But now it's all about cycle, it's all about dates, it's all about when you scuff it, it's uh how you prep it, you know, and and what you put on it, what you put in it. I mean it's which with with the race cars, I guess, you know, shocks and springs and all that stuff is the same thing, but you know, it's it's all tires, and uh, and I just yeah, I get burnt out on that.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Do you adjust go-karts at all anymore? No.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

I d well, you do some, not like you used to. Yeah. And uh, and you know, we're just so spoilt with tires. It's just like, you know, when you can put a set of tires on and it just changes the total feel of the go-kart. You know, it's hard to it's hard to change the cart when you don't have to be able to do that. And you already know what's there. Yeah, so we pretty much know everywhere we go, what we're gonna have to run. So, you know, it's just basically make sure your numbers are there.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

And that's just historical data. You've been there enough times you know what it means.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Make sure everything's, you know, where it's supposed to be is the main thing. Because, you know, you get customers that I help that, you know, they having problems here and well, did you check this? Did you check that? You know, no, I ain't checked it in a while. We'll check it, and then it'll be off. So you just make sure all that's where it's supposed to be and and uh and it's just all tires.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

If if Todd Miller could wave a magic wand a day and fix what you think is wrong with go-kart racing, what would you change?

SPEAKER_01 55:21

Well, there's there's a probably a lot, and uh, you know, and I and I and and some of it's gonna piss people off, but you know, and I know a lot of people make living doing it. I make my living doing motors, so if somebody tried to do something with motors, I guess I'd get upset too. But but tires is the biggest problem. It's it's I think it's the biggest problem. And uh, you know, yes, I wish they could you know it maybe it maybe cut the purses back and and you know, or pay through the field more, cut some of this parking money back. And you know, you know, gate fees, I don't mind paying gate fees. I mean you gotta pay workers, and I don't mind paying for a parking spot when I call to reserve it. But you know, paying some of the what they want for what you know, but you know, I understand they gotta pay the purses, and uh, but I wish uh you know we could control that sum and and and a tire deal is is is tough. But I mean, you know, uh hopefully the traded tires you know help some of that.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

I don't recall in any of my go-kart racing, and uh I guess I raced go-karts from 1983 up until 91 and then got out of it and I didn't get back into karting until 2006. And I ran 06, 07, 08, 09, and haven't been back in karting since then. I don't remember in any of my evolution of carting that it being a I don't did you did you run the Bridgestone series with me? Because I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Because there was never one. Did you run the Dunlop series with me? There was there a Continental series. No, there wasn't that. There were never now their tire series. It's the Max's series, it's the Reaper series, it's this, that, and the other. Which to me, and again, I don't have a lot of skin in the game, it would appear to me that the tire companies control kind of what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Well, they do because they back, you know, the some of the series and stuff, and you know, I'm not for the open tire series because I'm just not for that. And there is there's a lot of people out there that are, and I'm more for the one brand, you know, I want to be, I want to run this tire or that tire. I don't want to have to show up with, you know, when we used to race, yeah, we had Continentals, we had Dunlops, we had Bridgetone, and but we didn't have that many, so it wasn't that big a deal.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

And at the end of the day, we all wound up on the exact same stuff every time.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

And that's kind of the same way it is with is with the open tire deal now. But you know, there's there's certain circumstances where you might need a Vega. And there's certain where you need a Maxi, or you need a white maxi, or you need, you know, you know, a Reaper's not going to compete with a Maxi. And but, you know, you know, it's just I'm not for the open tire stuff.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

But if everybody's on a Reaper, everybody's on a Reaper. If everybody's on a Vega, everybody's on a Vega. That kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

You know, I, you know, uh, you know, talking about the tire stuff, you know, a lot of people down the Reaper tire. And I understand, you know, I might not need to go into this, but I understand, you know, it's not the better tire uh as far as speed-wise. But that's one that's one reason I got back into it a little bit a few years ago, just because of the simplicity of it. You know, we did it, but it's kind of taking a direction to where it's getting more work involved in it after we start figuring stuff out. But, you know, when we first started, I mean, you fixed tires at the track. I mean, you know, I would, I did not work on no reaper tires during the week. I worked on my track. I didn't have time to work on during the week. I don't, you know, back, you know, when I was younger, I didn't mind spending hours in the shop, you know, at night. But, you know, the older I get, I want to quit at six. Sure. I want to quit at me. I'd rather quit at four. Yeah. So you know, after I take my nap. But, you know, now you know it's just like the reaper tire kind of fit my deal. And it's like, and you know, everybody, like I said, everybody's got you know what fits them. And the reaper deal fit what I was doing because I didn't have to spend the time during the week to work on tires, I could work on them at the track. But, you know, that's kind of changing too, you know, after we figure, you know, this or that out, you know, competition.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Do you think the buying the tires at the track would save anybody money or help? Would that be evolutionary?

SPEAKER_01 59:03

I personally like it. Yeah. You know, I know everybody's got everybody's got mixed opinions, and uh, but I personally like buying tires at the track. And uh, you know, because it's it even for me, it's hard to compete with people that work on tires all the time.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

And uh and and they're good at what they do. They, I mean, they're they're I mean that's why they do it. And uh, but you know, I like buying tires at the track.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah. Uh Todd, so what uh what's next for Todd Miller racing engines, man? Uh what's the evolution look like? Is it is there a new frontier out there? Any of your kids interested in taking over the business?

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Lord, no. No, I mean I I'm just trying to survive week to week. I mean, it is survival. I mean, it's it's you know, we got so much going on, it's almost too much sometimes. You know, either too busy or you're not busy enough. And uh I am really blessed with what I got. Um, you know, my family, they support me. Uh my mom and dad support me, you know, my brothers help, you know, so you know, we have been blessed and uh with with the the business that we got. I know a lot of people through the you know, through some times have struggled. And we we had some times where we struggled, but you know, I think last year was one of my best years, you know, racing. And uh but you know, as far as business wise and and you know, just um I don't know what's in the future. I mean, I I I kind of told, you know, I I ain't told many people this, but I kind of want to make it to 60 as far as you know, just the everyday grind of just you know, and then just kind of slow down a little bit and and and you know, just do a few motors here and there. And I and I don't know, you know, that you know, whether I make it to 60 or not, who knows? But you know, I just uh you know, there's right now I could use more help in the shop, but I don't want the aggravation. It's just nice just being me and my brother, and then my dad helps some and you know, Rodney coming in. We kind of know what you know, I don't have to train nobody. Because you know, when you train somebody, you know, they they gonna understand they can make more money doing it on their own. Sure. So and it's uh it's just you know, I can control what's going on in the shop, I can control the product we're putting out, and I'm happy with that, and you know, we're always trying to make it better, but you know, we can only do so much, and um and yeah, I wish we could do more, but you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

What year did you start building motors full-time for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:19

Uh it was right around 94, 94, 95. Yeah, I worked for I worked for CKI, you know, the my senior year in high school, I worked that summer. And I want to say I worked about two years when I graduated. And then when I left there, it was like you know, I wasn't sure what uh which I I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And I left there, and when I went home, I just kind of you know I had a few guys build mo I wanted me to build motors at, you know, at my house, and I kind of done that. I just liked it. And then, you know, the rest is history. That's it. We just started with a little small shop and got bigger, and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

It'd be interesting to know fly on the wall, how many engines have come out of Potneck Road.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

We've done a lot. Yeah, yeah, we've done a lot. You know, I I'm not I hate to I I won't say we're one of as far as putting out motors, we're probably one of the top wise as far as, you know, there's a lot of good guys out there that build them. And uh, but you know, we we do quite a few.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

For folks who don't know Todd Miller, I mean they may know your name. Uh how can we find out more website, social media, photos?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Don't do website no more. I do Facebook, you know, we got a Facebook business, you know, site, and I got a personal site, but I don't I don't keep up with that stuff. I don't like posting. My brother normally posts some, and you know, I could, you know, I work, you know, I probably need to get somebody to do that more, but we don't, you know, it's really word of mouth more than anything, you know. And uh so that's that's kind of all we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Good deal. Phone number for the shop?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

It's uh 704-636-1224. And y'all are there Monday through Friday, unless we're racing, right? Yep, and uh from about eight to five, and Friday is it just depends.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

I understand, man. Hey, we shut her down in on Friday in the summertime. Fridays we're all to racetrack, so it's it's hard to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

I'm gonna tell you what, the older I get, it's just man, it's it's a lot of coffee in the morning. And I get I like to get started a little bit early, but I like to finish earlier.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

Man, we gotta we gotta teach Todd how to wake Surf Eric. You know, we we wake, and no, trust me on this, man. It's only 10 miles an hour. You don't crash hard. We do a lot of riding on the boats, and about every Friday we take a big group of men that go up there. We got some good guys. You need to come hang out with us one Friday to see, hey, and we're at High Rock, we're halfway between both Legos, so there you go, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

So I need another hobby, but I just, you know, I'm racing, just I I put everything away for racing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

Well, I I think unfortunately, um, racing's not a hobby. You've made racing your career. And it's uh it's funny. We uh we had somebody in earlier and we were talking about having a guest on that's really high up in the racing world. And I said, well, I'd love to have a guy on a podcast. And he's like, Yeah, he can go do your podcast. I said, I don't want to talk to him about racing. He goes, No, I could probably get him on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

That's what we do all the time, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

It's like well, honestly, I mean, you know, that's family. You know, racing, the deal is I mean, that is my family. I mean, it's it's you know, when you go to a family function or whatever, and we don't do that a lot. I mean, it's kind of you don't know what to talk about unless it's about racing.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

So, you know, the you know, being at the track is family. That's where you I'm comfortable, you know, and and uh, you know, just being around it. I've been around it so long, so that's where I'm comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

So, what does Todd Miller do when he's not at the racetrack?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Take naps.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

If you had a if you had a day off, would you just leave the day away?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Man, I'm gonna tell you I like naps. I do. You know, I I like spending time with my family. You know, the low older I get, the more I do. And and and you know, just uh just I've watched a little bit of TV. I don't really watch a lot. I don't I don't know, I get bored with that. I'll just go to bed. And uh I don't have no hobbies.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

I just the exciting life of Todd Miller is pretty boring.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

I mean, really, I mean it's it's it's just every day's the same thing. I don't know, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

You ever seen that movie Groundhog Day? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it feels like Groundhog Day, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

It's the same thing, but you know, I um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

I just If you ever get bored and you want to travel around three-fourths of the nation, I always got the shotgun seat open, man. You come on with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Yeah, I don't uh I got to where I just like staying at home. I just I don't I don't like the city.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Well you talk you talk about that commute, man, from the house to the shelf.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Well, and I and I used to not mind driving the races. I don't basic driving distance, you know, it didn't bother me, but now I just like staying one, two, three hours or around the house race. I mean, it's I just don't like getting home late. I like going to church in the mornings, and uh man, when you get home at three or four in the morning, it don't make going to church, you know, just hard to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yeah, I know you don't get up there a lot, but you may get up there way more. I know back in the day. How close is the wood racetrack to you? How close is Woodleaf?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Woodleaf's about two miles.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

About about two miles.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Honestly, when I when I was uh when I was younger, we I used to jog up to there and back to stay in shape. Yeah, we'd do that a lot, but I I couldn't even I couldn't even walk there. I'd now had to have a motorized vehicle to get there. But yeah. Yeah, about two miles.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

You let me know, I'll get Jeff to pick you up, man. Wouldn't be a problem at all. Well, Todd, anything else you want to share with the group here before we let them go, man?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

I mean I I would like to share something. I I I like to share Jesus a little bit with somebody. Absolutely. We had Easter this past weekend and uh and you know without Jesus, I mean there was there's you know there's nothing to look forward to. And uh, you know, this his sacrifice on the cross for us for our sins and what he took and what he endured on this earth and and uh you know um just you know if there's more there's more than just this life. And I think and and and you know you got heaven, you got hell, and and a lot of people think that you know, I'm a good person, I'm going to heaven, or I'm a bad person, I'm going to hell, but that's not it. You know, it's it's it's it's if you know Jesus and the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus and uh just the the to admit you're a sinner and uh that Jesus is your savior, and that's that's how you get you get through h to heaven through Jesus. And and you know, we had we had uh Easter this past weekend and thankful, you know, that he'd done what he done for us so we could be with them in heaven one day and and you know that's what it's about and uh because this life is short. And um, you know, uh the older I get, the more I realize how blessed I am and how God and and has got me through, you know, to this point and what he's blessed me with, with you know what I got. And uh and you know, without without that, there there's really nothing to look forward to. And uh which I you know you talked about uh what I've been doing a little bit. You know, I've been teaching Sunday school a little bit at church and uh and it's kind of you know got me out of my comfort zone. And uh you want to get in the word more, you you be a Sunday school teacher. I mean, because I'm gonna tell you, you gotta you gotta study that stuff, and and um, you know, that's not my comfort zone. In front of people is not my comfort zone. And uh and you know, Jesus wants you to get out of that comfort zone for him. And uh there's a lot of times when I let him down. And uh, but you know, uh you know, he it I am blessed with what I have and and uh my customers, I've got the best customers. And uh I've got you know my brother, my family, I can work with him and uh my my kids and uh dude it's uh it's it's good. And uh I just you know enjoying life a little bit and you know just uh keep on going.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

But it's uh it's awesome to see childhood friend. Yeah, man, you're living what you want to do, man. And I really appreciate you sharing your uh not being afraid to share Jesus. A lot of folks are, and absolutely, man, we really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

You definitely don't, you know, he with what he and dirt on the cross, you know, when you when you go through that whole last week and and the suffering and the beating that he took for us, you know, it's the it's the least we can do. And and and uh, you know, with without him, none of this is gonna be possible. And you know, you know, we got we always got heaven to look forward to. And I want to be in heaven, I definitely don't want to be in hell.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Amen to that. Well, maybe maybe maybe we get Todd to deliver the message at one of these races sometime, man. So well, Todd Miller, man, it's been an honor and a pleasure to have you on. Like I say, we've 40 plus year friendship, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

We we've known each other for a long time. And uh, and I remember going to, you know, I thought about this this week because I know what I was gonna talk about. And yeah, I remember going to Rockingham.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

You remember running the sprint stuff? Running the big track. Had a blast down there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

You bet, man. No, those were the days, yeah. Skinny tire days.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Skinny tire days.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Skinny tires and no body work days. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

My dad, my dad says something, you know, he said, you know, well, I think, you know, my daughter said something about the good old days, and dad said, You know, you're living in the good old days. You know, we don't know what the good old days are. No. You know, this could be the good old days. Yeah. But back then it was the good old days. But I think I think a lot of the back then was we loved it so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

We were eat up with it, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

I just it didn't matter. It didn't matter. I mean, I just loved it, and that's what all I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

The more we could do, the better it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Yeah, now I want to just quit at four, go take a nap.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

Wrong with that, man. Well, Todd, we'll be cheering for your for your naps for sure. Yeah. Well, guys, that's gonna do it for another episode of Driving Fast Taking Chances. Todd Miller, you guys know how to find him, you know where he's at. And now we actually know where your heart's at too, Todd. Thank you for sharing, man. Folks, we appreciate y'all joining in for another episode of Driving Fast and Taking Chances. If you need a go-kart motor, Todd Miller's your man. If you need safety equipment, Velocity USA is a place to get it. Check us out online. Velocityasusa.com, 336-764-8502. Drive fast, take chances.