Episode 28 - Robin Bradshaw

Episode 28 – Robin Bradshaw

Karting Legend | Motorsports Pioneer

In Episode 28, Brad sits down with Robin Bradshaw, a legendary figure in karting and one of the most respected names in grassroots motorsports. With decades of experience as a racer, mentor, and ambassador for the sport, Robin has played a significant role in shaping the careers of countless drivers while helping karting grow into one of racing's most important proving grounds.

Brad and Robin look back on the evolution of karting, the lessons learned over a lifetime in racing, and why the grassroots level remains the foundation of motorsports. From unforgettable stories at the track to thoughtful conversations about the sport's future, Robin shares the wisdom and perspective that only decades of experience can provide.

Whether you're a lifelong racer or just discovering the world of karting, this episode is a tribute to one of the people who has helped build the sport from the ground up.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, I'm Bad Brad for another episode of Driving Fast and Taking Chances. If you've been around go-kart racing in any in your whole life, you recognize this guy right here. Robin Bradshaw, man, it is great to finally get you on the show. Thank you for taking the time to come join us today.

SPEAKER_06 0:21

Thank you for having me, Brian.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Absolutely, man. So uh I was just reminiscing the other day and kind of thinking uh when I met you, uh it would have been around 1985, 1986. Um, and if I remember correctly, you guys were on Brookstown Avenue, 442 Brookstown Avenue, squeaky wooden floors. I don't even was there even a garage door there.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Uh yes, there was. There was the loading dock, the little loading dock. The loading dock, too.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I remember I remember carrying go-karts out the front, and we used to turn them sideways to get them out. So, and I think I still remember the phone number. The area code wasn't 336 then. It was 919-723-9167.

SPEAKER_05 0:59

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

That's crazy. I also remember you guys used to produce an incredible catalog. You can, it was for me, it was like uh you remember when we were kids, we had the Sears catalog and you circle what you wanted. I used to get the catalog and circle the stuff that I wanted. My dad never got it for me, but I always circled the stuff that I wanted on there. So, yes. Christmas wish list. It really was the Christmas Christmas wish list for sure. There was a lot of good stuff. I ironically enough still have my Snell 80 Simpson Bandit that I that was my first go-kart. It was been repainted a hundred times in my office and there on my shelf that actually came from competition carding. So a lot of memories. Yeah, a lot of memories, a lot of memories. This episode brought to you by Jeff Hill Trailer Sales in Modoc, Indiana. Jeff Hill TrailerSales.com has got everything you need: cargo, utility, stacker, full blown race trailer, whatever you need, Jeff and his crew will get you taken care of. Jeff Hill Trailer Sales.com, check them out today.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

There were a handful of folks that that built engines. Um most people back then, you had probably three major cart manufacturers then. You had Bug, KP manufacturing, you had Margay, and um Emic made carts, and uh there were there were a couple other smaller companies. So we we were basically a Margay distributor, right? And uh in those days also in 1976, it was two-cycle, not four-stroke. Sure. So um, you know, my passion then was, you know, we we had McCulloch had a a a really neat uh go-kart engine package. Uh it was a little hundredcc engine and a 125cc engine that they made. So I started with that, but then you kind of fast forward to late 1970s and things in this area started migrating more towards four-stroke. So the only four-stroke engine really available then was the of course the five horsepower flathead bricks. And that's kind of where it all started. That's kind of where people took off, and I got involved with that, and uh the it was kind of uh an adjustment period, but it w it was okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I remember uh hearing a story. I was in the office when I was a young man, 10, 11, 12 years old, and uh for some reason I was there in the summertime and I was eating lunch in Dan's office. It was me and him and John, and he was on the phone with somebody, and somebody asked him about um why Dan called him tater diggers. And he said, I remember the first one that I shipped out. He said, We wrote on the box, enclosed, one tater digger. So uh now you saw the evolution of that flathead basically, I didn't realize, all the way from the beginning.

SPEAKER_06 3:38

Yes, uh so you know from the early days of of the flathead. Actually, if you go back um to the mid-70s, a few co a few local tracks around me uh were starting to run them in a modified form. Okay. You know, the guys would grind their own cams. Sure. Uh they did, you know, we basically used tillets and carburetors. So they made their own exhaust pipes and you know, we we took parts and pieces and self-manufactured our own parts and pieces and raced and real ingenuity. Then, you know, then fast forward a couple more years, Gil Horseman, who was a mainstay in carting business in out of count uh California, Monrovia, California. So Gill got involved with the horse stroke side of racing. He started making, you know, he got involved with camshaf, uh ignitions, he got involved with making rods, you know, every aspect of it, even clutches. And uh so we started handling stuff from Gill. Uh we were distributor for Horseman Manufacturing. And if you remember, Brad, you can also go back to those days, you know, you had the horseman gold cup series, which was which was based, you know, it was all uh road course, of course.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Crown jewel of road course racing back then.

SPEAKER_06 4:47

And then then when you you get Gill involved and you get you know us leaning more toward the four cycle side of it, four-stroke racing in this area, South Carolina, North Carolina, became a very much a hotbed.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

It exploded.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

It exploded.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I remember there along I would say 88, 89, 1990. If you weren't riding a laser of some kind, your chassis, the CKI chassis, and you didn't have a Briggs by Bradshaw or Stanley stump puller, um, you basically didn't contend in so many arenas. Um I was fortunate enough, you built my modified engines, Stanley built my stock engines, have remained great friends with both of you over the years, um, won tons of national events, uh, was lucky enough to win seven championships. And I tell people all the time, if it wouldn't have been for CKI, and I know that my dad wrote y'all checks, I know y'all got paid, but it wasn't so much that. If we were there and there was something different you had discovered, man, you'd come over in a heartbeat and make an adjustment, you'd work on a carburetor, you'd check plugs. It was so much more of that back end support. And not only that, but there would be times that you would suggest, hey, I see the way that you're doing this, your breaking zone, especially gold cup stuff. You guys were more than just a place to buy things. You wanted your people to do well. And I remember that as a little kid, uh, looking up to you. And I always thought you were taller when I was a kid, by the way, because I was probably smaller. Um, but I always remember looking up to you guys as I mean, y'all were just y'all were heroes to me. It was uh it was awesome. And and metal, I mean, gosh, we could name the number of people. Um, I'd never raced pavement before. Uh, we went down to the little track that used to be in Salisbury, which I think is it's really close to where the quarter midget track is now, is that right?

SPEAKER_06 6:31

It's exactly in the same sp- not exact same spot, but it's the same uh property, I guess, area. Um and and a little bit of nostalgia there. So back in those days, um, and I hadn't, I think it was like 1974, 75. Actually, my mom and dad and another couple, we actually leased that track.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06 6:49

When it was a go-kart track. It used to be a micro midget track. Okay. And so we ran that track for several years. Wow. And during that time is when I got to know Dan. Dan would come down. We actually put on a North Carolina State race there.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Nice.

SPEAKER_06 7:01

And most of that was two-stroke, sure, Stan. But uh, so that's how all that kind of happened.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

And uh, you know, Mike Durham took me down there. Um, Goob, as we all know him. Mike took me down there and taught me about pavement racing. And I was hooked. And uh, I don't know, I don't think we ran very many oval asphalt races after that. We started doing the gold cup stuff. Dad was tired of the dirt, so we started doing the gold cup stuff and absolutely loved it. And uh, I tell people, once a carter, always a carter. I've sold out and got out a million times and uh got back in in 2006 and ran the Rotax Max stuff, uh, won multiple championships and tons of wins there. And people just, you know, they'd never heard of me. They didn't know me. And they were like, just not a lot of guys come out of your area. And I was like, man, I'm a prodigy of CKI. And when they started researching, they were like, all right, okay, that explains it. You had uh John used to take me racing to the Gold Cup races and to uh Goodyear and the South Carolina State Series and to Barnesville and some of these places. And I remember he would, you know, he'd call dad and give him a progress report. Dad would be out of town a lot and go, How'd Rallie do today? He said, Well, after I torqued his head bolts, we were pretty good. He had he had to he had to offer correction on a regular basis. And John and I remain very good friends. I talked to John pretty regularly too. So it was just neat to see that whole thing come together. Now, you guys didn't just build engines, you guys developed and built your own chassis as well. What gave you the idea, or at what point did you guys decide that you needed a chassis to go with your engine packages?

SPEAKER_06 8:30

So if you if you go back, um it was probably towards the end of the 70s, early 80s. Um Margay, and like I said earlier, we were a distributor from Margay out of St. Louis, Missouri. But their their carts, their geometry in their carts is really based on higher horsepower engines. They were based off of uh, you know, probably I'm gonna guess somewhere between 14 and you know, probably as much as 25 horsepower, depending on which uh CC engine you ran. So with a flathead brig, you know, at best, you were maybe doing eight or nine horsepower in a stock form. Sure. The limited modified were probably in the 16 to 18 horsepower range. And with that, I felt like um I just felt like the geometry uh throughout the cart, the way the cart was designed, was not an efficient um cart for for that horsepower range. So fast forward, I got hooked up with a good friend of mine Adam Warsaw, his name was Bill Smith, and we actually built the first laser carts out of his garage.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Oh wow, I never knew that.

SPEAKER_06 9:33

Yep. So if you and that would have probably been 1980, 81. So fast forward from that, as we built carts, the interest came, and we had to figure out a way to actually increase production. Because I mean we we were I was actually going down there at night helping Bill build go-karts after I worked all day at the shop. So fast forward, we got hooked up with a company out of New York, Coyote Products. Uh, got good friends with Wayne Wispolero, and we actually started building uh the first lasers with Wayne. And uh we took some designs. We really uh kind of moderated our our caster numbers. We moderated, you know, our uh we changed camera a lot with the carts. Uh the design of the cart was totally different. We took cues from uh European carts because they were totally efficient, uh, with especially with certain horsepower. You also go back to those days too, Brad, and you have to remember along came the Bridgestone tires.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

You know, so when we got into the bridged stone tires, and what we'd used before that was the early days, was probably Goodyear blue streaks, uh the continentals that we ran on dirt. Uh but when the bridgestone tires came out, that was a game changer for us as far as cart design.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

So we started to with the laser carts, we basically built that cart around uh the newer profile tires. There, you know, and it uh as things came together, you know, as as we built the first lasers, uh competed in stock classes and modified classes. It was kind of a just a combination, a recipe that came together. And we had a lot of success with that in the beginning. And uh fast forward to the 90s, uh, you know, we we then got into the multiple adjustable uh caster camber blocks where we came out with the AV carts.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Also the uh your offset carts happened to be.

SPEAKER_06 11:26

So the the LTO came around 1990, 91. We built the first one. Then right after that, we did the AV carts. There was an AV1, which was the engine A tubing. Then with the AV2, which was probably our best seller, was a cart that incorporated uh you know the adjustable front end. And that's the and basically the A V stood for adjustable vehicle. So uh a little bit of history and nostalgia with that. So it's uh, you know, you you sit here and you try to remember all the little things that you did.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

It's a lot, but it's a lot.

SPEAKER_06 11:58

We and like I say, uh Dan Klutz and Lewis Dow, which became partners, uh, you know, they were they were great and fun to work with. They like gave me a lot of leeway as far as racing and sure, letting me do stuff like that. So when I say and and you gotta go back, there I had a lot of other people close to me that that really uh let me, you know, that helped me a lot to achieve things. That's normally to achieve things in life, you got to have a good combination of people around you, people dedicated to a cause or a you know, a product or whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And everybody seemed to be very committed there, whether it was the counter guys, Ronnie, forever, um, whether it was, you know, whoever doing whatever job it was they were doing, everybody appeared to be in 110%. I used to always enjoy coming on Thursday nights.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Um, the shot would be open. I remember I hit a I hit a dry sump. Um, we had won a bunch of races at Danville, we had won a bunch of South Carolina races, but we were struggling goal cup wise and just couldn't figure out why. And we finally figured out it was me. Y'all figured out it was me. I didn't figure out it was me. I'm like, I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do, dad. And uh I remember we took our go-kart up there and we dropped it off the camp there and we got it on Thursday night. And I don't remember it may have been you, I don't think it was Stan, it could have been John, and we had brought the cart up there, and y'all were like, oh man, I'm glad you brought it. We found all this stuff wrong with it. And uh, it was our junior superstocker, junior limited program, which you had built that motor, and you were like, Man, that thing dinoed, it's crazy. And it had been one of Mike's motors, it had been one of Mike Dow's motors, and um, I hadn't won a Gold Cup race yet, and you were just man, you were on it like that. We were really glad you brought it. I walked into I got my first Gold Cup win at Darlington. I won't I beat uh Marty Lindley, I beat Pork Chop for my first Gold Cup win. Um I walked in, I have never I had never unloaded a go-kart and been that confident in my life. I was unbeatable because I was unbeatable. The cart was great, it always was. The engine was great, it always was. The tire manager was on time because John was doing a great job, but it was me. I didn't have the confidence in me. I could go to Danville and win with my eyes closed. I could go to those state races and win my eyes closed. But it was like when Kevin Colburn showed up, I couldn't beat him. When John Boy showed up, I couldn't beat him. It was just like I was beat before I unloaded. But that day I unloaded and I'm like, man, y'all ain't got nothing. Robin Bradshaw made my stuff fast. He put the magic dust on it, and I couldn't be beat, and I got my first Gold Cup win. And but what I learned from that episode, I was able to carry on my entire racing career and was lucky enough to win triple digits and go-karts and cars and tons of championships. Had a great time, have formed a lot of great friendships and relationships because of that. But you guys, I tell people all the time, gave me the confidence I needed to pull the ability out and do what my job was supposed to be. For that I'm ever forever thankful for sure.

SPEAKER_06 14:43

Yeah, you know what, and and that I'm glad you said that because even today, uh, with carting today, uh, it's really about um developing kids. Um, you know, as you know, I mean I'm I'm uh affiliated with Herm Sadler and Elliot Sadler.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

We we were gonna get to that. This is a great segue for that. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

Well, but when you brought up what you did, what what brought brought you out, okay? So that that's something I see today with kids. And uh when you can be a part of uh developing a kid and giving him the confidence in in your equipment stuff, it's uh I think it's it's something that's very rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Um absolutely, and you you could see it in the excitement. I don't think I you know, I I remember winning that race at Darlington and I couldn't believe it. Because I think we used to do that three heat situation with six, eight lap, six, eight, eight, and twelve or something, or six, eight, and whatever. I believe it was eight, three, eight. We qualified the poll, we won the first heat, we won the second heat, and then we get to the to what would theoretically be the main. I hadn't been nervous all day and now I'm nervous. And John said, Why are you nervous? He said, You have physically dominated. He said, Literally, every time we've taken a checkered flag, you're an entire straightaway head of. He said, It's like you're in a different category. And I'm like, I don't know, man. I mean, because we had lost a state race where the ring got broken tech when they did that. I said, What if you break a ring in tech? He said, I'm not gonna break a ring. I said, What if I miss my marks? He said, You're not gonna miss your marks. He said, Get out there and do your job. I went out there and did my job, and it was great, and it was unbelievable. And I think, I mean, Marty came up. He was the first guy to hug me. He's like, Man, you stomped me this weekend. That was awesome. You know, John Boy comes over, high-five me, uh, you know, Kevin Colburn, I mean, all the guys that I didn't think I could beat. It's like they were happy to see me, hey, you you kicked our teeth in, man. That was awesome. Um, which probably the week after, y'all probably sold go-karts because of it and motors, which is how it really did work back in the days. Man, we're getting beat by CCAP. We want one of those. We want, we want some of that. So uh it was great to be part of that team. It really was. Uh, it made all the difference in the world. I tell people that um I joke, I say I hate my dad. I don't hate my dad. I hate my dad because he made me go go-kart racing. He bought a little go-kart from Kerry Parnell, a DAP. And uh we had a motor that we bought from, you made me remember Bob Wallsworth.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

I do.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Got an old Bob Wallsworth motor. He had a Wesley Gregory motor, and we went to North Davidson in 1985, right down there, literally right down the road from this shop. Not far from here. And uh I was watching practice, and I said, How about we just practice tonight and then we come back and race? And my dad said, We are here, we are here to race. Well, he realized I was probably not going to be a throttle smasher in my first event. So he cut the respirator on the carburetor, and he had a tie wrap around the gas pedal where it was already about halfway down. So I practiced, and it scared me enough. I don't mind admitting it, I peed him a driving suit. One of them little plastic Margay suits. And uh we went out for the heat race, and I ran clear over the back of Shane Tuttle to where my front bumper put a mark across the back of his helmet. He bought the picture from Larry Tomar because he thought it was Tim Baden, because him and Tim Baden were in a battle. Both are customers and friends of mine now. It was me the whole time. So it was great. It was great. But uh I tell him I was scared to death because my dad made me race, and now I I can't quit. You know, I'm no longer racing. I've unfortunately I'm sidelined because of injury, but I still own a couple cars that compete weekly at Bowman Gray. I've got a micro sprint team in uh Oklahoma, and it's like I can't leave the sport. It's uh it's probably the most addictive thing that I've ever done.

SPEAKER_06 18:22

Racing is addictive. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yes. And there's if you look at it from a man with common sense, nobody would ever do this. So I get to spend all of my time, all of my money, all of my effort, and all of my resources. And if things don't go right, I'm gonna be devastated. Sign me up. Sign me up. But we've certainly done it. But the friendships, the family that I've built because of it, I wouldn't trade that for the world. So uh quickly, let's touch on that with uh Elliot and Hermy. Step through the progression here. What year did you decide to leave CKI and where did you go when you left CKI?

SPEAKER_06 18:58

So uh 2006 I left CKI and actually went to work for for Richard, RCR, and in the engine shop.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 19:07

Uh that was a deal where um and I gotta give Danny Lawrence some credit for that. Danny asked me, or I actually met Danny one day by accident, and I said, Look, if anything ever happens at the engine shop and you guys need some help, just let me know. And it wasn't long after that that um third opening for for in in those days in 2006, of course, we ran cobrators on on cup cars. So um they gave me an opportunity to come there and do that and did. And uh we we actually we actually had some good times down there uh in those days with carburetors and stuff. We did got to do a lot of research, we got to do a lot of testing, and um I you know we we were able to find some bits and pieces of horsepower and gas mileage, fuel mileage, and uh and we were able to win some races on fuel mileage in the early cut days. So it was uh it was rewarding, it was fun. Of course, fast forward um from 2006 to 2012, NASCAR comes in and says, hey, we're going to EFI, right? So here we are, we've got this pretty big inventory of carburetors, but now NASCAR wants to do uh the full the you know the full EFI thing. So they move me from basically the carburetor department to the EFI department, which where I'm still at today. So now I kind of manage the the EFI room and uh everything related to the engine from uh you know manifolds, injectors, sensors, throttle bodies, you name it. Uh so that's that's kind of our deal. Everything's in in shop that I do and and I work with the guys on the road to make sure they got what they need. So um that's been that's been a lot of fun. But it was and the reason I probably did that, Brad, was because I always kind of like working with my hands, but I was spent a lot of time on the phone with customers in in those days at CKI, and it gave me, you know, after a long stay at CKI, it gave me a way to refresh my mind and get away from what I'd done for so long. But I carried a lot of knowledge with me, working with people, working with carts. So if you fast forward now from 2006 going to 2012, 2013, back in the early days, I had a good relationship with Herm and Elliot.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Right. And I raced against both of them. Yeah. You know, our Virginia stuff, and got to know both of them well because of karting. So yes.

SPEAKER_06 21:25

So yeah, they both made their footprint in karting. And uh Hermie would come down and uh and or and and Herman would come down and they'd buy carts from us, they'd buy engines from us, they'd buy parts. And uh I got to know Hermione and got to know Mr. Herman, uh great people. Uh Miss Bell, Herm's mom, uh Elliot when he was when he was just a small toddler, uh, watching him race. And uh so fast forward, uh, we get to 2013, 2014. Uh we have some mutual friends that that uh that Hermie that work for Hermie, uh uh Danny White and his son also. That um were into carting and stuff. So fast forward to that. And next thing we know, you know, I'm doing a few engines, clone engines for them. When I got times hard to, you know, time. Where do you squeeze that in? Yes. And then, you know, I said, you know, it'd be cool if we were to build a chassis, you know. So you suggested the chassis. I kind of kind of brought up. I said the chassis gives us an eye, you know, it gives us another, there's probably more speed in a chassis than there is an engine. Any more. I think everybody's engine is pretty close. If you look at NASCAR, I know we we we get this on our minds that, you know, and you've got to have a good engine. Don't, don't, you know, don't ever and don't ever take that wrong. But at the same time, the speed is is in the chassis, it's in the bodies and the tires, uh, whether it's a go-kart or a cup car. And uh you gotta have, like I said, I'll repeat myself again, you've got to have a good engine. But if you solely think engine and don't put the other piece of the puzzle together, you're you're gonna struggle. So fast forward, we build a few carts, we get uh associated with some folks that help us build the first few carts. And next thing you know, you know, we we're starting to hit on a few things with with a few drivers that we got, some junior drivers, some senior drivers. And then fast forward, uh, you know, kind of like the old days of CKI, fast forward a few more years, our cart becomes pretty popular.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:18

Now, so uh we have a mainstay of customers today. Uh it's a very competitive market, don't get me wrong. And uh I wished I had more time to you know to put into it than what I do, and that may change before long, but uh it's it's we we've met a lot of people along the way, and the same thing as I mentioned earlier, I love to see the kids race. Uh me and Herm both do. That's kind of our deal. And uh one little bright note I'll say along the way, watching, you know, I think a lot of people out there have watched Elliot race, Elliot Sadler raced his whole career, and now you got his son Wyatt. Yeah, we got him in some carts and some buggies, and he has been tearing them up. I mean, uh I call him Wheelman Wyatt, but anyway, he's done a great job, and there's a lot of excitement up there. We have some other guys up there, we have uh, you know, people, some guys like uh Monk uh Newsome that works up there for us, and some other guys in the shop. And uh right now, uh, you know, we're we're turning out cars. We we're trying to keep customers happy. Uh we're not a large company by far, but at the same time, I've got good people that from fabricators uh to you know fiberglass people that uh work with us, uh manufactur, you know, help us manufacture the parts and pieces we need. We put it together in a combo for folks. So sure it's that's kind of our our scheme right now.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

But Herm really seems to enjoy it. I mean, I've talked to him a handful of times. He's sent folks to us for driving suits. We did some stuff also for his modified team and things like that. Man, you can just you can you can hear that fire again, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_06 24:53

Yeah, he loves it. He he loves to see people compete. He loves to see he just you know, him and Elliot are both just racers. Sure. You know, Hermione more from a business aspect. Yes. Elliot more from a I want to get out there and get out there and do it. Yeah, yeah. It's just it's fun to watch. And I just and then then you look at all the customers and all the folks that's involved with us, it's it's it's it's been a lot of fun. It has.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Now, you've been involved in karting for well, uh 54 years. If you started in 72, so 54 years. Today, I know obviously there's no way you could look at today and have thought in 72 it was gonna turn into what it has. What do you think has been the single biggest change in carting in your 54 years?

SPEAKER_06 25:38

Well, obviously, uh in carting, I still you know, technology has changed. I mean, if you go back and look at, you know, as I mentioned earlier, there were three manufacturers of carts back in the 70s, right? And now you've got many cart manufacturers. Then you have, you know, we have ways of making parts and pieces that we didn't have the whether it be CNC Ps or uh the way things are made now, even if it's uh you know 3D printed part, we can do things now that we couldn't back then. But the probably the biggest evolution, and I'm gonna bring up a sore spot here that that affects carting now is probably uh the tire situation. Sure. Uh, you know, it's it's we've we've got to have tires and uh uh there there's always been this ongoing battle of the preps and the no preps and being able to check it and being able to you know find a happy balance there. But uh there's a lot of people in carting that you know preps is our mainstay of business. Uh and I think that for the guys on the Saturday night tracks, you know, I think you have to give them that ability to do what they want. Now is is there's there's actually, you know, there there's a a threshold of knowledge that when a guy gets into carting, and that's kind of where I'm leading to, if you if you want to get new people into this sport, that learning curve of tires is is very difficult.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Very hard.

SPEAKER_06 27:04

Very hard. Uh and now, you know, you have some tracks that run open tire rules, you have some tracks that are locked in on a specific brand. But uh the more that people in this business can help the new people get in and help with that curve, the better for the sport. But it's it's very easy to to get somebody into this and have visions of you know being competitive and and winning races, but the tire curve, the learning curve on that really prohibits or stops a lot of people from achieving that. And I don't know that I've got the right answer for it, especially when it comes to dirt. Now, asphalt's not the same problem as dirt.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Do you think I'm of course there's a solution to every problem? If you were given a clean slate, if the powers that be, WK, NKRA, all of them came to you and said, Robin, we want you to develop a rock solid tire program. Well, what would be your proposal? What would you suggest to make that a more even playing field for everybody? This episode brought to you by Bassett Racing Wheels. Whether you're looking for a 15-inch inertia wheel, rolled edge, armor edge protection, whatever it is that you need, DOT IMCA Bassett Racing Wheel has you covered. Bassett Racing Wheels is the leader in short track wheels nationwide, bassettwheels.com for all your racing wheel needs. Do you think, um, of course there's a solution to every problem. If you were given a clean slate, if the powers that be, WK and KRA, all of them came to you and said, Robin, we want you to develop a rock solid tire program. What would be your proposal? What would you suggest to make that a more even playing field for everybody?

SPEAKER_06 28:43

Well, I I think the first thing you have to do is uh you have to look at the people in the business. You know, I I'm not gonna be synaptic enough, well, I would quit this and quit that and just do this. I think that's that's too simplistic an answer, Brad. The thing you have to do now is you've got to look at everybody that's in carting. Do you have a lot of people that actually, you know, that actually make their living from preps and stuff? Yeah. And I would not dare come into a sport and say, well, we're gonna we're gonna do away with preps, because I think that would be cruel. It would be uh it would be like a dagger through the heart of the sport at this point in time. Uh I I would like to see ways to to make carting more alluring to new people. And me to sit here and tell you I've got that answer right now would be misleading on my part. I think I think there's some things we can do that would help, but um you definitely don't want to take uh that that aspect of it out. But I would like for the learning curve to get easier for certain people. And I I know there's tracks are trying to do that. I know, you know, you look at the treaded tire, you look at the the you know, the analysis they do with the tread attire, uh if if they're they feel like some hanky panky is going on, and that that'll always be ongoing. But uh, you know, moving forward, I I think there we've got to find a balance in that. Uh and I really don't want this as kind of a sore subject, but I don't want to get into it. But because I have a lot of people I know personally that you know make a lot of money from preps and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I was gonna say Andy Murray's a very good friend of mine. His daughter and my daughter have rodeoed together, his son still make Bryson stuff, love him to death, and honestly, up until last year, we were able to chemically enhance our tires at Bowman Gray. My prep came from Andy Murray. You know what I mean? I do. Um we're not we get checked now, and there's a whole another group of rules. So um I do think it is definitely a uh it is a tough situation. Um I think the thing that is surprising to me is I don't ever remember running the Bridgestone Cup, the Dunlop Cup, the you know what I mean? We may have ran a Bridgestone or a Dunlop, or you know, for me with uh two cycle racing, we ran MOGO and Vega and some of these others. I don't ever remember the tire company controlling the series. And it appears, maybe I'm wrong, that the tire companies are controlling carting to some extent. Um, they are the ones that have the series, they are the ones that are doing the things. I don't ever remember, and and when I talk to guys, and uh I've obviously we sell to carting dealers as well. And I've got a guy in Tennessee, and we were talking the other day, I said, How much do you make when you sell a tire? He said, I make $2.75 if I sell it at retail. And I said, Why do you sell tires? He goes, Well, if I don't, they won't buy anything from me. Because they'll come here and buy those four tires, those eight tires, those ten tires, which for me is a giveaway. And he said, A lot of times, if anything happens with freight, I've made no money on the tire at all. Um, he said, but they'll buy their gears from me, they'll buy their oil from me, they'll buy their methanol from me, they'll buy these other pieces. So he says, Without tires, I can't make a living. I just I don't ever remember be it being that way. We got into this whole thing where we did an open tire thing with tag carting um years ago, and I stayed very loyal to our brand manufacturer, and they rewarded me handsomely. Um, we went to an event, and I won't call anybody out because there's a lot of people whose feelings are still hurt, but this company sent me five cases of fronts and five cases of rears. And they said every time you hit the track, you have to be on stickers in order to stay on our deal. Well, we had three days of practice. Nobody else is on stickers. Well, we're not gonna qualify on used tires. Why would I prep on? Why would I get ready on used tires? I'm not gonna heat race on used tires. Why would I get ready and I'm not gonna run the main because we go through three sets. So we had the upper hand because I mean, we're running six laps of practice, tires are off. Four laps of practice, tires are off. So when it came race time, we had a huge competitive advantage. We had also probably spent in real money $7,000 on tires, but we didn't have to pay for that because we stayed loyal to the manufacturer and they took care of us. But I also talked to those guys, and I was a dealer for that tire company at the time. I used to sell a set of tag cart tires. I made about $75 on a set of tag cart tires. That's not great money at the end of the day. None of us are going to retire on that. But it was reasonable enough money that you didn't mind selling tires. Now you hear these guys that are making two or three dollars on this, and I mean, God bless the ingenuity of and guys like Andy Murray and some of these other guys, and Donnie Knall, these guys that are making these preps and doing this chemical stuff to it. I can absolutely see why you would not want to cripple that guy for spending his time in the trenches and doing that. Is there a solution? I think we would agree there probably is some solution. Is it anything we can probably flip the switch on? I don't think anybody's got that switch like you. I remember the days where $1,000, $1,500, would buy a guy's used cart and motor, and I could go down here to Liberty or go down here to North Davidson or wherever, unload and probably be competitive. There is absolutely zero percent chance that you could do that today.

SPEAKER_06 33:44

Not with the cost of things today, no.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

No, zero implos. And and and like you said, if you didn't already know somebody, uh if I didn't still know Todd Miller, if I didn't still know Andy Murray, if I didn't still know some of these other guys and I were gonna get into karting today and didn't know anything about it, I'd I'd be wasting money and going in it blind and may get frustrated, like you said, because of the tire learning curve and may never actually may never stick with it. It just it'd be too tough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:12

So and and and I'm that's what I was trying to uh lead to a while ago. I I think that you know I don't think that we need to really do away with the preps. Um I just think there's a if we could come up with a way to access the new people getting the sport to help them with the learning curve of that. And and I I think a lot of the tire guys are doing that. You know, whether it be you know Andy Murray or or um uh a Monk Newsom or whoever, uh there's guys that out there that can that can kind of school the guys at the track. And it's a learning curve. And just as much as learning to drive, just as much as learning chassis setups, uh the whole nine yard, it is a learning curve. But uh when those guys put their foot down and want to go out and help people, I think that's kind of the the direction I'd like to see it go in. Yeah, and not just be at the track to to try to beat the new people. Sure. Let's try to help the new people getting into the sport, get them, get them where they need to go.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

So now one of the things that uh I have always credited you with, and you're extremely humble, and it's okay if you don't want to lead into it. How many guys do you think that you taught, coached, or helped figure out how to build four cycle engines? Well, you know, we just had this conversation with somebody else the other day, and we named a whole bunch of people that we felt like you could have possibly, probably more than likely been very actively involved in possibly what became their careers and some of their success as well.

SPEAKER_06 35:41

Well, there were a lot of folks, um, a lot of them have moved on out of carding, but there's a lot of folks that have come along, whether they drove or they built engines or whatever, uh, that you know I had a good affiliation with in the early days and stuff. So uh, you know, I I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna delve into uh actually helping people or what I did in those days. Sure. Because I did what I did for out of a passion.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_06 36:06

And like I said, a lot of those people that that moved on and and they helped me to understand. So whether they worked with me for a while and went on their own and started doing engines, and I can name quite a few people.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 36:20

Uh, they were still there at a while at a time when you know we needed the help at the shop too. So it's uh it was a two-way street.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

It was a win-win for everybody.

SPEAKER_06 36:27

Yeah, and it's it's no different if you look at uh whether it's basketball or or football and coaches and stuff. When a coach is coaching and he gets his assistant and he gets his offensive coordinator or whoever, he's they're learning from him too, and then they move on to become head coaches, right? So it's it's it's the same system. And um, you know, I I I love to see people, I I just love to see people have fun with this business. I love to see people compete. Um I love to see the young, like and I'll repeat myself again. I love to see the young kids. Nothing better than the kids, man. Um it's it's just rewarding. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Would it be fair to say that you have helped a lot of people become head coaches? Just would that be fair enough to say?

SPEAKER_06 37:08

Well, I think I'd like to think that over the years that you know my maybe I had an influence to keep them motivated to keep going in this sport. Uh and then there's been quite a few, but I I I get a lot of phone calls, I get a lot of texts from people whose I shouldn't say this, but whose sons are racing and their grandsons are racing. Yes. Were kids when I raced. So when you're around as long as I've been in this sport, it it's it's kind of it's kind of humbling to to hear from those folks. And we've got, I mean, we've got customers, you know, with our cart now that their their sons and grandsons are racing them, right? Yeah. And they were just rumored the days of CKI, sure. Of the laser carts and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm my daughter's 22 now. Um, fortunately and unfortunately, she never took a uh she never got interested in motorsport. She she races horse, she's a barrel racer. Um I thank God for that every day. And then sometimes I look at it and go, man, what what could have been? But I think about it, and if my daughter on a scale of one to ten were just a level five driver, I wonder how many race cars would be back here in this shop right now and how much money I probably would have wasted. Not that the horses have been cheap, but I think about it, I'm like, you know what? Maybe, maybe that worked out probably okay, because I was pretty passionate about it too, and probably would have probably would have pushed her a little further than I needed to for sure. So um what do you feel like is the future of carding? What do you feel like is next? Uh what do you think uh we will see in the next three to five years uh as far as evolution without giving away secrets because I know you guys are always working on new stuff. We certainly wouldn't want you to do that, but uh what do you think that we'll see next? What do you think the contingent of carding wants to see?

SPEAKER_06 38:51

Um I as far as are we talking about chassis or are we talking about just the the main just in general, just carting overall.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

I mean, uh we see a few more sanctioning bodies pop up here and there, a different and one thing I do want to touch about before you answer that. When I was a kid, if there was a state race and there was a money race an hour away, the state race had 500 go-karts and the money race had about 80 people. It doesn't work like that anymore. Do you think you don't have to get too deep into it if you don't want to, do you think money and compensation payouts has changed or diluted the passion that some of us maybe had for carting early on?

SPEAKER_06 39:35

I I think that the money is um a relevant point to to be discussed. It's uh kind of where, you know if if we only go to race for money, um I think there's an element there that um we're kind of losing the fun of the sport a little bit, right? Um but I but I get it, the cost of carding is a lot, and there's a lot of guys that you know there's a group of guys that hit a lot of these big money races. You know, every time somebody pops up with a $5,000 race, $10,000 race, you know, whether we're talking about the wing pool or we're talking about uh just large races in general, uh these guys are gonna be there. I call them the hard hit crowd. Sure. That's my kind of my because they're gonna be there and they're gonna give it everything they've got.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

I think they prefer to be called professional cart racers, but yes.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Well, when I say hard hits, I'm I'm bragging. Yeah. I'm I'm really saying that this is the this is the the good crowd. This is the guys that you've got to beat week in and week out. Yeah. And uh so it's not a bad word, it's just what I call it. And uh the and those guys are gonna be there, and a lot of the guys want to come and give their shot to beat them, okay? And there's probably a group of maybe 20 racers when I say that.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

And they're diehards.

SPEAKER_06 40:52

And they're diehards, yeah. So the sad thing is I I I don't like to see people get into the sport at a at an early point and and go try to compete in those races. I'd rather see them develop their skills and hone their skills at a at a local track. Sure. Because I'm gonna be honest with you, when you start racing, your best memories of racing are are when you started.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 41:16

You know, if you and you're if say, you know, if you're older now and you had your dad, uh, your mom, your your even your grandparents, and go to that racetrack and it was a local track like Liberty's been Liberty for a long, long time. Yes. And I still got memories of going to that track, a lot of the tracks around here. They all do. And those are the best days you're racing. As you race more and more, the adventure of new wear is off. So it becomes more of a routine of something that you like to do more than the sheer excitement of doing it. And I'd love to see, and when if you think that you need to go run the big races, that's great. But I really don't think you'll have more fun in racing than the first years at your local track or local two or three tracks.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Really good perspective.

SPEAKER_06 42:01

You know, and that's that's the way I was. And if I talk to people today, you know, if you talk to a lot of the older guys today, they'll look at you and they'll say, Man, you know, the best times I had was Liberty. Yeah. 30 years ago or something. Tyro, North Tyro, Tyro. You know, we could we could talk about tracks all day long. But my you know, my best memories were the old Horseman Gold Cup series, of course. And and the days even before that on the on the small ovals. But uh, and as I got into the national events, I mean, traveling around the country a lot, uh uh Ohio, you know, uh different states, uh, running the Grand Nationals and stuff, whether it was two stroke or four stroke, it was a lot of fun. But when I go back and I think about my memories and the people at the racetrack, it all goes back to the very beginning and the people were that were I were surrounded with then, not so much the the larger races.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Well, you started racing because it was fun. You wanted to have fun. That's how we all started. Sure. I I go to some of these events now, and it doesn't look like a lot of people are having a lot of fun. Of course, there's a handful of people celebrating, but for all practical purposes, especially at the majors. Now, when I go down here to uh Woodleaf to Jeff's track and I see these kids run down here, this treaded tire deal, the cage cart, all those kids are having fun.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Because they're all new, they're excited, the whole deal. Absolutely. When I go to the Wayne Pool, I've been several times. You just when you walk through that pit area and you look and there's eight or ten guys hanging out in an area and nobody in that pit is smiling. Have we changed from where we were from what we're doing? Are we chasing the wrong thing? Is it still fun? Uh all rhetorical questions, of course, but for me, if it ever stops being fun, I'm I'm gonna sell everything I've got and and do something else 'cause it's supposed to be fun. We're supposed to have a good time doing this.

SPEAKER_06 43:48

Well, I've always enjoyed you know, you you a person in an individual getting into racing, he has to look at he has to look at his his uh priority his his his priority economy state. Right. He's got to look at how much money do I have? I've got a wife, I maybe have two kids. How much money can I spend? Sure. So the thing about carting sometime we can get carried away. We feel like we got to to spend more and more and more because we want to try to compete more and more and more. But I try to tell people to take your time. I don't care if you start with a used cart, you know, whatever you got just to get to the racetrack and learn to make sure you want to do this. And try to use your, you know, your God-given ability mechanically, uh physically to drive the cart, uh, all the aspects of that to develop yourself into a good driver and a good mechanic and someone who can relate, you know, the cart, the tires and everything to the racetrack. And build that and then develop your skills over a period of time where you can compete against the bigger names, the bigger, the bigger, you know, the bigger races, the bigger competition. If you try to jump into this sport quick and then head off to uh a large race uh out of state that you've never been to before and you've got these aspirations, well, I want it, my track, you know, I've been racing now for a year and I want it the other week. I'm ready to go get these guys. No, it's not a real I'm not saying you can't, but it's not probably a realistic expectation. So as you said, keep it fun. Don't don't go to a racetrack, get yourself frustrated because you're not running good. Because there's trust me, there's a lot of things that um there's a lot of people and a lot of things, a lot of experience out there you're trying to race against, and you don't have that, you're not at that level yet. So uh take your time, enjoy the sport. Uh to me, I kind of relate it to golf. You know, I can I can buy all the golf clubs I want. I can buy the same golf clubs that you know uh a professional golfer has. But to think I'm gonna go out there and whack them the same. I'm gonna go out there and try to shoot the score they got. I've you know, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a realist, I know it's not gonna happen, but I can have fun doing it, right? Sure. And that's that's if I had to say something to the racers out there, I would tell them the same thing. Just develop your skills, spend the money you have to spend without going bankrupt, right? Right. And just try to develop yourself into the best you can be.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

That's really, really solid advice, and I think that's all kind of how we all started. We all started with that $1,500 go-kart. I think my dad paid Carrie Parnell $300 for that dap.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

So, I mean, uh but in, you know, in 1985, $300 is a lot of money. I don't know what that, I don't know what the inflation would that be today, but yeah, but uh, and I wondered times too, because you know, we got the parking lots paved out here this strip. I've often thought about putting a cone neither into the parking lot and having my staff race. But I'm trying to find all these late 90s, early 2000s offset carts. People are still racing those things. Sure they are, and they're proud of them. I found a um maybe it was a stalker or something a few weeks ago. Guy's still racing, he wants sixteen hundred dollars for like a night, or I think it was a 2002 model cart with a body. I'm like, that's probably more than I want to put into that. But yeah, I you're right. And a lot of the equipment is still around. Um a lot, a lot of the uh a lot of the guys are still around that are still making these things go faster. So uh you're still doing it, Harold's still doing it, Todd's still doing it. Um, there's a lot of guys, but there's also a lot of new blood that's coming in, a lot of new innovation and things like that. So that's a great perspective on that. So maybe I'll rephrase my question then, Robin, instead of uh what's coming up, what would you like to see in the next three to five years in carting? You've obviously mentioned the kids, and we know you've got a passion for that. What would Robin Bradshaw like to see in the next three to five years changes different or the direction of carting to go?

SPEAKER_06 47:40

I I would say uh let's, you know, we we try we try to do the uh the the no-pro classes, right? We try to have classes out there that you know they're really they're really good guys can't compete in. And uh I think we need to look look at that. Let's let's you know it obviously it's it's a lot of fun to win some money, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 48:04

I mean, in the old days there was money at times, a lot of it was trophy racing, but the passion to win was still there. Absolutely. Um so I'd say let's let's try to develop classes where you know guys can have a chance if if it's a big if it's a big track. You know, I I if I was starting racing now, I wouldn't want to go to a race where I had to run against, you know, some of those guys that are really, really good. Um I if if if I want to enter that class and I want to have a chance at them, I think that's great. But I also want to have a class where, hey, I'm running against guys more at my level. Sure. And I think that's that's a key part, whether it's a junior class or a senior class or adult class, I think that's something that that we need to look at. As far as tracks, I mean one track that stands out that I think kind of uh looks at the future of carding. I I do like Paradise Speedway. And I'm not I'm not trying to uh put tracks, but he Henry's done a great job putting that track together. He's got a nice facility. And uh I think one thing moving forward, and and I I I still like the Liberties, I still like the state line tracks, uh the Woodleaf, as we mentioned, all these tracks, and and I'm sure I'm gonna miss some tracks. You got Tri-County, you know, you got Triple T, you have a lot of tracks and stuff, but uh I think the facilities and the then the guys are trying to really have a nice facility for people to race on. I think that's a key part of this of this sport uh to have nice facilities to race on too.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

So try to stray away from the pro class or at least make it a platform where a less experienced guy can run and these tracks that are doing improvements to make the facility nice. Nice. You think those will be the things, the keys that we'll we'll I would I would like to see that.

SPEAKER_06 49:49

I mean it if you know when we go somewhere now, um we we if we go shopping or somewhere, we want to win a nice, you know, we want to go to a nice place to shop. Sure. Right. Uh if we go to a restaurant to eat, we want a nice place to eat. And I just think it makes it appealing. And I'm not saying you gotta have it, I'm just saying it makes it more appealing for for people getting into the sport.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 50:11

You understand? So uh I think that's a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Um I will say we raced at some not nice places back in the day.

SPEAKER_06 50:19

But you know, it didn't it didn't bother me, but no, you know, when I look at the future and when I look at where we've come from and to where we are now and and looking at maybe 10 years, 15 years down the road, I think that's the avenue that the the sport needs to take if we can.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Sure. You know.

SPEAKER_06 50:34

Uh but it's uh carting is a I think it's a great sport, you know. If you're growing up, if you've got a kid, you know, I never was good at football, I never was good at basketball, though, although I love the sports, you know, I wasn't big enough or fast enough to really do those things. But when you've got a kid that he has some mechanical ability, he has some physical ability, and you can put those three things together, uh, along with, you know, you know, making the best he can be. I it carting is an avenue for those folks.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Still still, I mean, uh uh one of the sanctioning bodies says carding is the foundation of motorsports. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 51:12

I still I still use the I still believe that.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

I still stand by it. Absolutely. I think it's been. And I mean, um you could sit here for hours and name the kids that you've seen come through, like Elliot, who went to cup, Hermie, who went to cup. Um in fact, uh Stacy Compton. I mean, so many of these guys, it's been they really did start as go-kart racers, and the evolution took them to that point. So it was it was encouraging to see. It was fun to see where some of these one of these kids wound up.

SPEAKER_06 51:43

Absolutely. I mean, it's uh it's been a fun ride. Um it has.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

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SPEAKER_06 52:28

Well, I'll I'll I'll say this. Uh I think that uh as far as you know, if you look at carting, there's there's different facets, right? Uh you you still have uh our our main goal is probably the uh the dirt over racing. Sure. So that's what I'll try to focus on. In the future, and the guys the guys with the tracks, they're they're doing a really great job of trying to promote their tracks, of trying to improve the facilities of their tracks, and to make karting a better, more family-oriented uh area. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

I mean, I've seen playgrounds at these tracks now and playgrounds. Like uh Jeff, and I mean I gotta praise Jeff. He's across the parking lot, he's probably one of my best adult friends. We grew up together at uh with the he's got the ice cream trailer down there weekly. Yep. He's got real food that you want to eat. Yep. The grandstands are always clean. He got the have you seen the lights he put in? You've probably seen them from Europe.

SPEAKER_05 53:21

Yeah, well, yeah, because I go, I go by, you know, potnik a lot.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, that man, I mean, and again, it's it's it's it's a love. I mean, it's not like he's making any money there. So it's obviously a love of the sport, but you're exactly right. They've they everybody, not everybody, but most of them have paid attention to that.

SPEAKER_06 53:40

Yeah. So yeah, you can, you know, we can look at all the tracks. I'm gonna focus like South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. Uh a lot of the tracks that I've actually been to, uh, you know, they're they're still a little homegrown deal. Uh some guys are a little bit more up with what they can have, you know, camper hookups, uh covered tops, facilities, and stuff. But everybody, I think, in in the carting world, it's dirt, I'm primarily talking about, has tried to improve their facility. And I think that's instrumental for for the future of carting. You want to make it a family uh facility. I said that a while ago, but you want to make it where if if if the wife comes, if the dad and the son are racing, and the wife comes and maybe the daughter, you want to make sure that they're they have a safe environment, they have a clean environment where they're at, whether it's you know the restrooms and everything. And I think all the track owners are trying to improve in that. And I I think that's uh that's that's good. Um also I'll say this uh you know, we we have a lot of classes for for different uh you know classes for for whether it be a junior driver, senior driver, or whoever. And I think that having classes out there for guys that aren't professionals and are are probably another thing I like to see.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

How do you how do you draw that line? How do you determine, you know, it was always an argument when I was a kid, so and so they let him run the amateur race, but he's won three national events. But he's never won a national championship or state championship, but he's won three nationals and dominates regional racing. Is that guy an amateur? I guess where do you draw that line? And I mean, we could probably have a podcast completely just on that. Just on that. But but where do we figure out where we draw that line? Because somebody's feelings are always going to be hurt by that.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

Well, you have, you know, today you have a no-pro class, of course. Uh and then you have other uh, you know, you have the Ducar classes, right? Uh along with the clone classes, and I think that's that tries to separate some of that. It doesn't always do it because you got guys in no-pro, although they may have not won a big race, they certainly have performed really good in big racing and stuff. So it's it's it's very hard to do. But I just and and I think I mentioned this earlier. Uh I think for a guy starting out um that hasn't put in a lot of time in racing, I think it's important for him to have a class he can run in where he feels like he can compete. He's got a shot. He's got a shot. And as I also mentioned earlier, I think it's also great that if he wants to run in in the $5,000, $10,000 pro race that all the really greats are in. Uh I think that's he has the ability to do that if he wants to do it. Because no matter no matter where you feel like you're at in your carting um uh development, you you want to be able to see what you've got against the best. I mean, I was like that. You were like that. 100%, you know. Yes. Uh but um but yeah, as far as the future of carting um classes where guys feel like they can compete at uh facilities where the families are are safe and uh have have have you know the things they need there to to have clean restrooms, restaurants and everything. I think that's that's kind of the the deal. And and and like I said earlier, the the the track owners are are working in that direction. Um I think it I think it's great. Uh I'm not gonna single out any track in particular, but I think it's great that uh everybody's trying to work in that common uh uh motion forward.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Absolutely. So uh we've talked about it obviously being the great foundation for kids. I have heard, uh having been to a lot of karting races in the last couple years, it appears, at least some of the larger races, that some of the kids' classes are shrinking. That we're not having quite as many entries. I talked to two people this last week. One you would consider your hard head category, I would consider a pro racer, and another who just got some stuff for his kid, uh, was saying, you know, they're a little bit scared because it appears that some of the entry-level junior classes just don't have the entries that we used to have. How do we get kids how do we get more kids involved? I see with quarter midget racing, we're very involved with quarter midgets, they have arrive and drive days to see if your kid wants to do it. Um, they have instruction, the parents all have to volunteer. Um I'm not gonna say quarter midget racing is better than carting, but there are elements of it that I far enjoy way better than what I see at the carting races. Um are there any things that you think in your mind, as passionate as you are about the kids, how do we get more kids involved in this? How do we make more parents aware? How do we get the kids to come out?

SPEAKER_06 58:24

I think that has to start a lot with the uh maybe cart shops, uh along with uh as we talked earlier about the people who understand the the the learning curve in cart racing. Because if you just put a a a family in cart racing without really and this because can go to the the cart manufacturing themselves, it can be the guy that builds the engine. And typically now the guy that builds the engine is also a tire guru, right? To a point. He has to be. If he's gonna sell engines, he's gotta be able to help people with tires and and chassis to a point. So the more involved they get with their customers, I think it it helps to uh help them with their learning curve of of participating at a young age in a junior class. Uh also, you know, you got guys coming in this sport that are seniors, you know, they've never raised good cars, but now they have a little money in their pocket, right? Right. And they want to they want to get out there and do it. So that it's the same thing for them also. Uh but there has to be a uh a karting um community help program. Uh I don't know if that's the right word I want to use, but people in the business have to really help the guys. They can't just look at them as a as a dollar bill. They can't look and say, well, I'm gonna just sell him a couple gallons of prep. I'm gonna give him these tire, and I'm gonna say, well, put this on with this work, put that on, but they have to kind of hand, you know, get them to understand the track, the track conditions, uh, and help them, you know, develop that over time. And it's not something that's gonna happen overnight. You know, I there's a couple guys I help now, and I'm not really a I'm not a dirt tire expert, but there's a couple guys now. I said you're gonna have to spend your time. Uh, and though I know that I know they have the equipment, I know they have the engine, I know they have the driving ability. I said, you're gonna have to spend your time to understand the tires, the track conditions in the tires. Now, once you master that or once you get better at that, you're gonna see a big improvement. Sure. Uh, because I know they have the other elements that they need, right? And the same thing, uh, so if if I were an engine builder, if I was a guy that that was, you know, did my tires, talked to customers day in and day out, the more they help those people, I think that has an ability to promote the junior class and and karting overall. Right. Not not just the junior class, but karting overall. So uh but it's it's it's just you know, it it's really about people. It's like me and you said when you came to CKI, right? Um, you felt like you were at home, you felt like the people up there really wanted to step out and help you. Part of the team. And uh that kept you in this sport till now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Well, yes, basically. Honestly, and and if I wasn't hurt, I mean, now that Jeff's doing this prep tire class and they've got a senior cage car class, I mean, they run during the week, and it's 25 minutes from the shop. I mean, who's to say I wouldn't have one? You know what I mean? I I still like to turn left, and even though I'm not supposed to race, um, I still get in my cars and practice at Bowman Gray. My doctor said, I don't want you in a wheel-to-wheel competition. If you still feel like you need to slip in the suit and go turn left every now and then just to see if you still got it, God bless you, do your thing. I don't want you racing, uh, but I honestly don't have I don't have the desire to take that green flag anymore. It's fun to get out there and make it turn. I still love to make them go fast. I still love to adjust on them. I still like to tweak on them. I don't think I'll ever give that up. But yeah, absolutely. Do you think there's a way, and again, another topic we could go into for hours, that we could figure out how to make the kids' classes less expensive? Is there a way that we could economically downsize it? Not necessarily smaller cart, this, that, and the other. Could is there a way we could take some of the tire work out of it? Is there a way that we could go back to a true box stock engine? Just ideas that I've heard other guys throw around. If we were able to downsize it, do you think it'd be more attractive to parents?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:10

Uh that that's a hard question to answer because i if you break it down to the engine, right? Uh, you know, they try to do some straight out of the box stock engines, which a true racer is gonna always if you let if you let someone take something home, whether it's his tires, whether it's his engine, whether it's his car, whatever, his a true racer is gonna try to make everything better to to beat the competition. And that is that's really the thoroughbred of racing. That that is what that that's the heart of racing. And I hate to use this word, but you know, and it's it's and I think I see it a lot in NASCAR. We want sometimes we have this vision of cookie-cutter racing. You know, we want to make this car, okay, uh just like the same thing for everybody. That way everybody's gonna run the same lap time. No, it don't happen. It's not realistic. And so I it really comes down to the the help we give to these people. So to answer your question, I'm gonna go back to what the answer I gave you earlier, Brad. It's really if you got somebody new, they're not familiar with everything, they have to have help. They have to have people in this business. Uh and as I said earlier, whether it's engine builder, chassis manufacturer, just a tire guy, when you hook those people up with people, I think you can see the the the sport grow. Uh and talking about cost, okay, I still say the cheapest way, the most inexpensive way you can race is stay close to your local tracks. Yeah. Support them, support their their you know, their point system, stay with them through the year, and uh and and and see where it takes. You know, I there's there's a two tracks in this general here that you know they're running the series, you know, every other week between themselves, which I think is a great thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Well they're working together.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:05

And they're working together. And uh uh so far what I've seen it's been a success so far this year, and I hope it continues that. Uh but you can take so much cost out of traveling, motels just by staying to your local tracks.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:19

And I'm not you know, it it depends on what a person wants to do. But when you when you up your, you know the when you try to up your game a lot and try to go to the the bigger tracks, the further away tracks, the more higher purse, but to get in, you know, the the you might be running for more money, but the cost to actually race is a lot more too. Substantially more. Then that's that's when the cost gets sure up. So um, I mean, I don't have to go to Augusta to have a good time playing golf. Golf, right. You can you can hit the links where you are. Yeah. That's just the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

And I think if more uh folks saw that, that they don't need the motorhome and the 48-foot trailer and all the pieces that go with that, and they can go run locally. Great options are out there, as you mentioned. They still get to go race, they still get to have fun, and you know, it's just like car racing. I mean, uh we're getting ready to start a season at Bowman Gray, and we're gonna have 150 plus race cars. The likelihood of any of those guys making it to the cup level is probably less than zero. I hate to say that, but the truth of the matter is um you work RCR, ECR, right? Um name everybody in the talent scout department real quick. We'll wait.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

Yeah. Because it doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately. So uh case in point, you should be racing for fun. You should be racing at your level, your economic status. Um, I had a rant about sponsorship that I did last year sometime. It probably had way too many views, and some people said some bad things. But my thing is is racing is a first world problem. And if you're complaining about racing being expensive, then you're racing beyond your means and you probably shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Everybody everybody didn't agree with that, Robin. They some people said some. Not nice things, but uh and we asked a question, you know, if you totally lost your race car tonight, you totally lost your go-kart, blew the motor up, your trailer got T-boned by a train on the way home, how long would it be before you're back racing the next week? A very small percentage of them said we'd race the next night, a very small percentage. A little bigger percentage, but very small, maybe two or three percent said next week. A lot of people said I'd be done for the year. A lot of people said I'd be done forever. So when I hear that, it hurts my heart. And I I give the the adage, I was having a conversation with a pretty popular modified racer here locally. And I said, you know, how many spare motors do you have? He said, I don't know a spare motor. I said, if you blew your motor up tonight, what would you do? He said, We'd be back next week with another motor. So how much is the motor? He said, about 35 grand. I said, You got 35 grand on you? So you got 35 grand in your checking account? Got 35 grand in savings? No. You got 35 grand hidden manies, jars in your magic? He said, No. I said, How are you gonna find it? He goes, I don't really know, but I'd find it because I've done it multiple times. I said, let me flip that around. You get home tonight and your refrigerator went out. What are you gonna do? He said, we're gonna have ice fulls of cool coolers full of ice for a week until I figure out how to get that done. I said, Well, there you go, there's priorities right there. So yeah, I think we've all seen it over the years for sure. But put you on the spot and ask you a couple of hard questions. Uh oh. They're gonna be hard to answer. When Robin Bradshaw was racing, who was Robin Bradshaw? Who was the guy that you felt like you had to beat every week? I'm not gonna call him a rival or a nemesis, and maybe it was back in the day, but who was the guy that you felt like challenged you the hardest week in, week out?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:30

Uh you know, there there was a couple guys back in the day, uh, and I gotta go back to the two stroke days, right? And I'm not saying they were idols, but there were a couple guys that that stand out um uh as far as driving ability, mechanical and driving ability. Uh one guy was uh he was out of Chattanooga, Tennessee. His name was Lynn Haddock.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:53

Lynn Lynn was uh, you know, I watched him and when I was coming along, going through the learning curve and stuff, and he was just very, very efficient. He was a he was a he was a really good NG guy. He was uh a really good driver and he understood carts, he understood tires. And if you and no matter where he went, he did he raced everywhere. He went with Lake Speed overseas, helped Lake Speed win the World Championships. Sure. And uh that that's one guy that always stands out. And I got I had the bit I had the the honors of racing against a guy like Scott Pruitt back in the day at Barnesville, Georgia. And uh so those guys kind of stand out. Not that I wanted to beat them, it's like they were just that good in their day and time, and a lot of it was just sheer driving ability.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:41

You know, even today, you know, you got you got a lot of guys that um whether it's a cup car or uh a go-kar, you know, you got guys can get the job done driving.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

So that's that's my next question. So we'll go with Lynn Haddock as the standalone. You got to race with Scott today. When you look out, and I know you don't necessarily want to single anybody out, who would you have eyes on right now? Who would you really be watching? Who you mentioned Elliott's son, obviously. Who's impressed you recently? Not even a surprise. Maybe they've always had good equipment, this, that, and the other, but who does Robin look down and you're at the racetrack and you go, man, that kid's really got it. He's got the shoe. Is there anybody that stands out?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

Well, I think I think you really got uh several drivers now. I mean, you know, um one kid, uh you know, I look at a guy like Chase Williamson, right? He he's a really good, uh, he's a really good wheel man. He he can normally, if he's got the cart, he's got the four tires on at the right time, he's gonna be a factor. Um, you know, there there's other guys I I can kind of put in that same category, but uh then I get into the situation where if I I name this one, this one, this one, I'm gonna miss one. I'm gonna miss one, right? No, no, I understand. So, but uh he's kind of uh he he's really good, you know. He uh but he's always had that ability to get a little bit more consistently out of stuff than than a lot of guys can. Sure. Um not not no bad reflection on others, because there's other kids out there that are digging right now. So they're digging probably harder at getting better. And uh so eventually, you know, the the the the game changes all the time, you know. Um Richard Petty doesn't win race all the races anymore, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:20

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:21

So uh in his day, you know, there were guys in his day that looked at him and said, man, I don't know if anybody's gonna ever beat this guy in 1967, he wins 27 races, I believe. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Uh whether whether it was the competition there is still pretty impressive. Uh then you look at the the guys today, you look at the Kyle Larsons today, um, all these these other folks, and uh it's just a uh there are there are drivers that just excel a little bit more than than a lot of others. And I know I'm leaving people out. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

And then like I say, and then uh we had we've had a few other folks on the podcast, and they've also said mentioned the same name. So that must mean there's really something special there. You know what I mean? Don't don't personally know, and I understand he's a great driver. See his name in the results very regular. So obviously he's getting it done. If uh let's just say that uh there were a there may be is there a carding hall of fame somewhere? There should be. World Carding Hall of Fame. World Carding Hall of Fame. If they called you tomorrow and asked you for an inductee, they said, Robin, we want to put somebody in for a lifetime achievement from 1972 to here we are in 2026. You can only give them one name. Who would you give them?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:36

Boy, you're really I told you that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:39

You really are throwing some darts at me. I'm just I'm just curious, and it's not even there. There could be many reasons for it. And I I uh I'm not gonna try to inflate, swell, or puff anything up. My nominee is Robin Bradshaw, he's sitting right here. I'm honored to have you on the show. I'm blown away that you were able to come. So my nominee is Robin Bradshaw. I'm curious who Robin Bradshaw's is.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:00

Um I'd have to think about that. Can we come back to that later? I gotta really I gotta really focus on that because there's so many great people I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:09

Could you narrow it down to three?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:13

Well probably the three I'm thinking about already in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

Name them. Because a lot a lot I didn't even know there was a carding hall of fame. So that's great. So who are they? Who when you stack your podium in no particular order, who are they?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:27

Well, you got to remember that I mean I was around the the I I really got to be around the forefathers of WKA.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

Sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:36

Number one, George Coogler.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:38

Another guy on my list is Dan Klutz. Yes. You know, then probably there's another guy that spent a lot of time, a lot of years racing was Lewis Dow.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

Yeah. Uh that's a pretty strong class.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:47

That's a pretty strong class. But they're all they're already, they are they're all there. They're all there. Yeah. And uh so I know I'm missing people, but these are the people that were close to me that you saw that that I watched through the years, you know. And what I wonder Jill Horseman is another one. He was instrumental in the big days, and he he is a he's a uh you know in the in the hall of fame.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

I wonder today how many people are watching this podcast that have probably never heard those four names. Had no idea what they did a lot.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:18

Yeah. You know, I can go back, you know, heck I can go back and think about um other really good ones. I mean, most of them are in there, but uh it's uh it it it's been a lot of fun and it's it's uh I can't tell you from from go-karting to NASCAR to people that I met here at RCR and the people um that I was, you know, got got the ability to meet and greet the from drivers to crew chiefs to car owners and stuff, it's it's been a it's been a thrilling ride and stuff, you know. And it's awesome. And I've I may mention this before, there's a lot of similarities between karting and and NASCAR, uh, and not only in in technology, not only in in uh mechanical uh adaptations, but also uh in drivers and stuff. You know, uh I I've always said if if you if you really want to be a really great driver in NASCAR, start out in go-kar racing. Yeah, and when we've talked about the split second, millisecond reactions, if you want to develop your uh physical ability, go get a go go get on a go-kart on a you know on a uh thousand-foot old track, high bank, pulling pulling two and a half G's on your neck for for 200 laps, like you know, I got to do with some kids years ago. One one was Carrie Parnell. Yes. Another one was uh a young man named Justin Hill. And those guys uh um you can go back to the Briggs and Stratton 300, Charlotte Motor Speedway. Those are some of the guys that won those races. Um and if you really want to develop some skills and stuff in NASCAR or late model stock, develop those skills there first. Sure. You know, and that's that's a that's a kudos to cart racing. That's what can do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

Absolutely. Develop set.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:13

You can go down to you know Morvel Um and look at that, look at that road course down there, and you see a lot of kids come along on that racetrack too.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:21

Sure, sure. So, Robin, uh you alluded to something a little bit earlier, and if you can't talk about it, that's okay. You said that there may be a time in the near future that you may be able to spend more time in carting.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:34

Well, I would like to, you know, I mean Hermes had this had this uh we've had this discussion before, and it uh the right things have to happen at the right time, but you know, we're we're pretty we're pretty passionate. Um there's a lot of things that we want to do, a lot of things that we want to uh put in the world according, which I really can't talk about. But it's just uh it's time because we you know we all got 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

116 hours a week.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:02

And I probably spend you know 46 to 48 here a week. So it's uh it's hard to do, but um yeah, it's it's it's it's something I'm thinking about. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Um when it's all said and done and uh fifty years from now a guy brings up Robin Bradshaw's name. What do you want people to remember Robin Bradshaw for?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:27

I just tried to beat uh I learned something a long time ago, Brad. You know, uh I tried to treat people the way I want to be treated. You know, and you can um you know, if you look at the first two commands, the the first two commandments in the Bible, love the Lord with all your heart and love each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Love that Abraham as I said.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:49

And so there's if there's two commandments or two rules I try to live by, those two are first.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

So I'd say for me, you've done an impeccable job.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:59

Yeah, so anyway, that's uh and I try, you know, things we don't live in a perfect world, you know, probably getting a little bit philosophical here, but we don't live in a perfect world, but uh I think it's everybody's duty to try to make the world more perfect, you know. Whether it's you know, every people with every person we talk to in in racing, your customers, whether it's NASCAR racing or go-kart racing, I try to, you know, I try to bring out the best in that person. Uh, you know. If they're struggling at the racetrack, you know, we try to help them. Sure. And I'm honest with people. I said, you know, I always tell people to try to be the best they can be. I said, don't don't try to go out here and try to do something you're probably not capable of doing. Just try to be the best you can be, you know. And uh that's just being honest with people. But if if to be remembered with something, I just uh I and I've always told my wife that, and I've always told my daughter, my wife Debbie that, and I've always told my daughter Crystal that. I said, just try to wish and hope the best for everybody and make sure that uh you you live your life like that. And if you if you live your life hoping and praying the best for everybody, uh it frees you. It makes you a free person. You know, don't don't let don't let racing, don't let things in life make you bitter. Sure. Uh because I went through that years ago. You know, I I was a years ago when I was super competitive. I I you know, my main thing was to win. My main thing was to beat people. Or not really beat them, but be the best I can be and try to win races. And uh it took me a while, but I I I I realized that if I really wanted to win, I had to change my philosophy about that. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

That's good. That's good stuff. Okay. If there's uh is there anything before we let you go, is there anything that you want to share? We do want you to share how we can find out more about premier chassis. That's something you're super involved in. Uh, website, phone number, any of that kind of stuff that you want to share. We'd love to have that. And then uh any last words of wisdom, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:51

I mean, uh just one time we've got uh I'm gonna call you the godfather of four cycles here on uh so let's uh the only thing I really want to say is you know, like if it when it comes to premier carts, uh uh you can you can contact um uh monk newsome. You can even contact probably Elliot Sadler. Yeah, you know, Elliot Elliot's at the shop, he's working. That's awesome. Or Hermie.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:13

And uh you can do it. We have uh uh on Facebook, we're on there. Uh you can go to the website, thepremerecart.com. And um, you know, like I say, we're we're we're a small group, but at the same time, we're trying to be we we just try to help folks uh to achieve their dreams the best we can. And uh uh and other than that, no, I I I pretty much when I said my my biggest two commandments, I think I kind of covered everything there. That was absolutely I appreciate you having me on, and hopefully uh the people that are in go-kart racing, the people that just love racing in general, uh if you if you have a passion to be involved in racing, if you're in college, if you're in high school, and you're looking for something to do, the the door's always there to get more heavily involved. You know, uh we have at RCR, at ECR engines, we have great engineers there. We have just we've we've got some old school people, new school people, and when you combine new technology with older uh know-how, ancient wisdom. Ancient wisdom, yes, you can uh you can really do some great things. We have we have a great engine program there. Uh uh I'm gonna say, you know, Richard Childress is very, very passionate about racing. Uh he tries to give everybody what they need. Uh the guys in the engine shop there, and I'm talking about Bob Fisher. Uh some of those guys, uh Bob always gives us the leeway to to create and do things we want to do to try to make the best product we can. And we have do have a good product in our engine. So uh we have a great group of people. So for whether it's go-kart racing with Hermie or you know, NASCAR uh racing, uh, I've been blessed to be a part of both of those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

Awesome. Awesome. Well, Robin again, thanks for coming on today. Folks, uh, you might not have known all the things that you've learned today about Robin Bradshaw. If you're interested in Premier Chassis, he's giving you the information there. Obviously, ECR does sell engines, obviously, to other teams. They do late model stock, dirt, late model stuff, things like that. So you can certainly contact uh ECR with that. Guys, we really appreciate you tuning in today. That's going to do it for another episode of driving fast and taking chances. I want you to uh Robin Bradshaw for being known as always.